Generator Autostart Criteria

Topic: Generator Autostart Criteria (Read 1989 times) previous topic - next topic

Generator Autostart Criteria

October 07, 2010, 11:02:20 pm

The coach is a 1997 U295 with Powertech 10KW diesel generator. There is a Genwizard switch that is set to "Automatic." The generator has never started automatically. I starts and runs well when we start it from the dash or bedroom controls.

A couple of weeks ago, we experienced a fairly significant discharge of the batteries due to using 50a/30a connector that hooked the shore power to the "wrong" side of the coach circuits. I thought we were on shore power, but we were running on the inverter and batteries for most of the circuits that were in use. Doh! Unfortunately, I did not make a note of the voltage, but I think it was below 12.2 volts. I would expect the autostart feature to start the generator at about 12.2 volts.

I am currently at home and doing a test. The batteries are discharging at 10A and I plan to check the voltage and other readings available on the monitor panel. If the batteries drop to 12V and the generator doesn't start, I'll expect that there is something wrong.

What do those of you with more experience and expertise have to offer regarding generator autostart on a 1997 coach?

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #1 – October 08, 2010, 09:29:53 am

Can not tell what the 97, 295 has for setup, but my 01 320 uses a autostart module made by same company (DynaGen) that makes the ES52, and using the manual, I went through all the settings, and it works great, but then it also seemed to work great before I went over it.
It has a switch on dash to turn on the auto or turn off.
Not sure how that works with your system.
In my coach the module is on floor under the center compartment, behind the swing open door, just remove the false bottom above it and there it is.
If you find the module, let me know, I can get the adjustment info, I think I can find it again.
If you have a GOOD DVM, VOM or VTVM, you can get a good adjustment.
Good luck
Dave

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #2 – October 08, 2010, 09:52:59 am

Ok, Found the manual for the DynaGen BCM 12, the module that senses battery voltage and starts the genset when voltage drops to a predetermined level (Voltage).\
For the guys like me who snoop and play

Cheers
Dave

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #3 – October 08, 2010, 10:04:18 am

Dave,
I don't think J.D. had the newer BMC-12 auto start.
I believe he has the "GENWIZARD" CONTROLLER, AUTO-START

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #4 – October 08, 2010, 10:11:12 am

Barry,
No idea, unfortunately DynaGen no longer makes the BCM, and I have no clue for the other models out here.
I do a fair amount of business with DynaGen and hope I could twist the arm of my sales rep to get one made if I get into a corner one day.
I think now that the auto start modules used by Foretravel are coming from Xantrex, but I am not certain about that either. Could be a SilverLeaf.
Never a dull day when you get into what is vs what was.
Dave

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #5 – October 08, 2010, 10:31:49 am

Good news, I guess, Silverleaf has a generator controller that also includes nice things like auto exerciser, quiet times, very wide range of options including auto temp settings etc..
Only seen one of these, was in brothers Phenix with the Total coach Silverleaf system.
That eliminates us po folk.
Dave

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #6 – October 08, 2010, 11:11:40 am

I do have the Genwizard. I have the installation manual. It states that it doesn't make the decision to start or stop. It only executes the task. Apparently it provides appropriate sensing systems to execute the start sequence and check if it was successful. It will try again an appropriate number of times. However, some other "trigger" event must tell the Genwizard to act. There must be another module or sensor to trigger the Genwizard.

I searched the web and forum archives. I found no helpful information. I will search the schematics and manuals in search of additional information.

I started the "smoke test" last night. I left the inverter, DVR, and a light on. The load was about 10A. This morning, the light was off, but all else was nominal. The "hours left" was a reasonable number for running overnight at 10A, and the voltage was 12.45V. However, the light was off. Apparently the ballast in the ceiling light gave up during the night. Doh! I expect the easiest, and possibly only reasonable, fix is to replace the fixture. Yes, I did trade some bulbs to isolate the failure. A good bulb will flash on insertion to the socket, but will not remain lighted. Apparently the "smoke" escaped from the module in the fixture. (No real smoke, but the device did quit working. Almost everything electrical contains smoke, which is required for the device to work. If the smoke escapes, it quits working.

)

I'll watch the gauges and see if the generator starts at some reasonable depletion level. If not, we'll see if some experts in NAC can figure it out. We are due for some scheduled maintenance soon.

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #7 – October 08, 2010, 03:41:22 pm

Barry,

Thanks for the link. The light is a BIAX F36BX. There are at least four of them used as overhead fixtures in our coach. One lamp is shot and sheds a dim light. The others worked fine until the "main" light cratered last night. I think our lamps would not be classified as a "Thin-Lites." I think the only place we have Thin-Lites is in the outside lamp over the door. I didn't see anything like our lamps on the Northern Arizona Wind and Sun site.

I continue to drain the batteries. The Link 2000 shows the voltage at 12.15V. I checked with voltmeters at the battery terminals. One Extech meter showed 12.27V, and another showed 12.26V. When I put a temporary big load, the oven, on the system, the voltages dropped to around 12V. The generator never hinted at a start. I'll continue a slower discharge until the unloaded voltage is about 12.1V. If the generator doesn't start by them, I'll assume there is a problem with the autostart system. I will also immediately plug in to our 50A shore power here at home to bring the batteries back up.

I checked the schematic diagrams. It appears that a module named "SSI" is set to trigger the Genwizard to start the generator at 12.2V. There is also a setting for 14V. That may be a shutdown level. I have not found the Genwizard nor the SSI. I think I'll refer the problem to someone in NAC.

Generator Autostart

Reply #8 – January 01, 2011, 11:23:29 pm

Quote from: Dave M – January 01, 2011, 08:30:08 pm

I wonder what auto-start system your using for the battery test, Reason, I have the DynaGen autostart module, have calibrated it and it work great, start at 12.2 VDC and runs for 3 hours. Not an easy fun thing to do, it is very touchy, but now I feel comfy with it.
Never seems to have an issue with any of the systems surrounding the Charger/inverter/Batteries.
FWIW

Dave, I think we have a Genwizard autostart. My documents include a Genwizard document and there is a switch labeled Genwizard with settings of "Automatic" and "Manual." There is a red lamp labeled "Fault." I leave the switch in "Automatic." I have drained the house batteries to 12.1 volts and the generator has not attempted to start.

I have searched for a module, but I don't really know what I am looking for.

In the eight months we have had the coach, the batteries, charger, inverter, and generator, have worked well. The autostart function has never worked.

We have an appointment at FOT in January. One of the items on the work list is to fix the autostart. I hope they can make the system work without having to install a new autostart system.

Re: Generator Autostart

Reply #9 – January 02, 2011, 01:10:30 pm

JD, I am not familiar with the Genwizard auto start unit,maybe there is some paper work with it that might describe how it operates etc. Hope FOT can solve it for you. The DynaGen unit is no longer available, not enough call for it since newer controls have replaced it.
Good luck
Dave

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #10 – January 02, 2011, 03:05:06 pm

JD, check the generator control panel and see if you have 4 red led's and 2 green, it could be that it has been changed out with a Dyna Gen unit, also check your manual for wiring diagram A-6682, the ss1 is in the control box.

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #11 – January 02, 2011, 08:17:27 pm

Quote from: Bill Willett – January 02, 2011, 03:05:06 pm

JD, check the generator control panel and see if you have 4 red led's and 2 green, it could be that it has been changed out with a Dyna Gen unit, also check your manual for wiring diagram A-6682, the ss1 is in the control box.

The generator control panel has no LEDs as I recall. (We are in Wheatland, WY, for an overnight stop. It's 24F. I'm not going out to look.) I know it doesn't have 4 reds and 2 greens. I have diagram A-6521 for Genwizard 10KW PTS. It shows connections to SS1. I don't know enough to look for the devices or identify them if I see them unless they have BIG labels on them.

Thanks to all for suggestions. I'll leave this to the experts at FOT. If they get it working and give me some clues, I may be able to tweak and troubleshoot the autostart in the future.

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #12 – January 02, 2011, 08:29:24 pm

Easiest way to test the auto-start on the Genset is use the propane heater while unplugged. The fan motor eats so much juice, you'll run down the batteries very quickly.

Modified:
I forgot...the auto-start control board has settings (dip switches) to set the low voltage "start" and High voltage "off" for the genset. If your low voltage is set to go "on" at 11.8 or 12.0 volts, it will not start at your reading of 12.2 volts.

James Triana can give you these genset dip switch settings

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #13 – January 02, 2011, 08:38:13 pm

JD, this may help, go to atkinsonelectronic.com, under manufacturing look for energy and generators, they have a gscm autostart that is a close match for the old gen wiz.

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #14 – January 19, 2011, 09:13:05 pm

Wayne at FOT showed me why the autostart did not work on our coach. He showed me where the wires from the interior switch had been cut and capped. I told me where the module would have been, had it not been removed from the coach.

He fixed the wiring to the fuel pump that should be activated when the "Preheat" switch is engaged. He reported that the generator should start a bit better now when using the manual "Preheat" switch, and manual start switch.

My options for autostart are now relatively unlimited. I can choose to install whatever might work well with the Powertech 10KW (Kubota 4).

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #15 – January 23, 2011, 11:08:49 am

JD,
I had a GenWizard in my 97 U320. It would start the generator and never shut down, no matter what I did. I finally contacted Foretravel and found out they only installed these in 1997, due to continuous problems. That was enough for me. I removed the entire unit, which was located in the port side forward bay and installed a Magnum Energy AGM inside the coach, in the cabinet above the thermostat. A much simpler unit. It watches battery voltage and inside coach temperature. It is fully adjustable.

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #16 – January 23, 2011, 03:03:44 pm

Quote from: flite2010 – January 23, 2011, 11:08:49 am

.. installed a Magnum Energy AGM inside the coach, in the cabinet above the thermostat. A much simpler unit. It watches battery voltage and inside coach temperature. It is fully adjustable. ...

Bob,

Thanks for the excellent explanation that probably applies to our 1997 U295 regarding the "missing" GenWizard. The recommendation of the Magnum Energy module is helpful. I was looking at the ME-AGS as a possible solution to provide autostart for our coach. A personal recommendation provides a higher level of confidence that the device will work for us.

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #17 – February 02, 2011, 03:26:37 pm

We have a Powertech 10KW generator in the 1997 U295. The autostart system was removed from the coach. I have had one recommendation for the ME-AGS system as a good replacement. It will start based on voltage or interior temperature. It looks like those units sell for about $264 from several sellers of solar electric systems.

Is there a comparable or better system? Should I install it myself, or pay FOT to install? I do well tinkering with systems and understanding how things work. I'm not particularly good at running cables through races or implementing "commercial grade" installations. Would anyone like to enjoy the experience of showing me how to properly install such a system?

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #18 – February 02, 2011, 07:06:27 pm

We installed the Magnum gen auto start you mentioned. There are two models and we have to use the 'stand-alone' model because we do not have Magnum inverter/chargers. I believe your model is the stand-alone unit.

It installs very easily in our coach and others have installed it themselves. On original OEM dash gen rocker switch we press down to preheat, up to start, down to stop. The Magnum unit connects to all 3 wires on this switch. Additional wires are to ground, 12 volts positive & hour meter or dash green gen run light. All 5 wires are at the dash so no wire runs need to be made. Your choice where to mount the small switch box. Our switch box is on dash and the circuit board / relay box is under our dash. The dash switch has the thermistor for auto start on temp rise if you want to use that feature.
When the unit senses low voltage on the positive wire, it starts a timer and then closes the relay to preheat, then after a short pause, it closes a relay to start, then after your chosen adjustable run time, it closes the relay to stop. It looks for voltage on green dash LED or hour meter to know if gen start was successful. If not it tries to auto start again.

The only problem we all have with the unit is that the highest adjustment on the low voltage setting is 12 volts, which is too low. So we get around this with a simple solution that works very well. Put a Radio Shack diode on the 12 volt sense wire which lowers the voltage to fool the Magnum unit into thinking that 12.4 volts shows up at the Magnum as about 11.8, well within the adjustment range. Others have used the diode trick. We set our unit to auto start at about 12.2 volts under load (if any load).

Go for it. Our autostart has saved our ... several times when we forgot to pay attention to volt meter.

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #19 – February 03, 2011, 11:04:06 pm

Barry & Cindy,

Thanks for the very informative post regarding the ME-AGS autostart module. It all makes sense with respect to the controls that are currently in place. I may have a go at it.

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #20 – May 20, 2021, 10:11:12 pm

Bringing back another super old thread. I still have the BCM-12 AGS and according to the manual in this thread, it is connected to an engine controller (ES5x or GSC300). I've attached the wiring page from my manual and it doesn't appear to be either of those. Where should I be looking to find this guy? I've got the Powertech 10k gen.

Once I find it, what I'm looking for is a signal that tells me if the generator is running or not, preferably a 12v output. Maybe #87 of the run relay that goes to the run solenoid, hour meter and fuel pump.

I guess the first order of business is to see which controller I have. Any input is appreciated.

Re: Generator Autostart Criteria

Reply #21 – May 20, 2021, 10:38:34 pm

The part inside the dotted line in the lower right corner is in the coach. There is a start switch in the BR and one on the dash as well as the auto start switch on the dash.

The BCM-12 is under the center storage compartment floor. This is where auto start parameters (that there are) can be set

The rest of this in in the control box on the left top of the generator quiet box. Mine is not starting now and I an following wires.

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