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Topic: King Control Throttle & Cruise (Read 2265 times) previous topic - next topic

King Control Throttle & Cruise

I have posted on this issue before and I know one of our members is broken down with a failing King. Wish I could help. Anyhow, my coach is running fine but every once in awhile I get the non-throttle response problem that so many of us have experienced and I want to fix it permanently. (cruise continues to work fine)

Coach Conversion Central offers an air throttle setup for about $1,000. The installation seems straightforward but the throttle needs to integrate with an Allison Throttle Position Sensor. I could buy one but I don't have any idea how to install it. Anyhow, I am finding that there is a dearth of information on this issue, on this forum as well as others.

I have contacted a couple of forum members (air & hydraulic solutions) but am still uncertain about the Allison integration. Anyhow, this post is just an attempt to draw out anyone else that has actually solved this issue. I'm still researching. Thanks.
jor
93 225
95 300
97 270
99 320

Re: King Control Throttle & Cruise

Reply #1 –
I understand that the King Control can have internal issues.

Our previous coach had a King Control, and I encountered non-throttle response several times.  I hope my experience might help others.

Once, the battery wires came loose. The engine kept running, but the throttle did not operate.

Once, I had a short in the hitch electrical wiring, which made the brake lights stay on.  Would not accelerate.

Once, I had a short in the towd wiring, same issue.

Once, I was accidentally resting my foot on the floor switch for the Pac Brake.  No acceleration.
Matt B
1998 u-320

Re: King Control Throttle & Cruise

Reply #2 –
Quote from: jor –
...the throttle needs to integrate with an Allison Throttle Position Sensor. I could buy one but I don't have any idea how to install it.
See if the tech sheet linked below would be of any help:

https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?media/item/4811
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: King Control Throttle & Cruise

Reply #3 –
I get the no throttle response issue coming off a a long duration of being on cruise control, setting the throttle back to zero seems to clear up the issue.
Doug W.
96 36' U270 CSGI #4946
04 Toyota Tacoma 4x4
PNW

Re: King Control Throttle & Cruise

Reply #4 –
Quote
tech sheet linked below
Chuck, that TPS adjustment document is just the ticket, however, it looks like you would need that Allison instrument to get it right. I'm thinkin' I could do the air throttle installation but then I wouldn't be able to drive it to an Allison shop. Still thinking...

Quote
coming off a a long duration of being on cruise control
Doug, that's what mine does. Maybe it would continue on for years as some here on the forum have but then again...

Anyhow, I followed the King troubleshooting document and thought I had cured the problem with a new ground. I also, cleaned up the tail light sockets, their ground and installed new bulbs. Nevertheless, on this last trip it did it twice. I consider this fair warning.

About five years ago, Alton at Foretravel told me that they had lots of issues with the King and consequently replaced them with air throttles. I have a call into Foretravel Tech (Ronnie). I don't know Ronnie but I do know that Triana is running Service now so maybe he has a tried and true solution.
Thanks.
jor
93 225
95 300
97 270
99 320

Re: King Control Throttle & Cruise

Reply #5 –
Jor I had the king control rebuilt on the Monaco Dynasty I had and I drove it with a wire running from the Cummins to the foot throttle so the Allison didn't shift properly as it had no input from throttle control. If you put in a air throttle you can drive it to Allison it just won't shift the way it is suppose to.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: King Control Throttle & Cruise

Reply #6 –
Quote
If you put in a air throttle you can drive it to Allison it just won't shift the way it is suppose to.

Hey, this is some good news. Chipping away at this thing. Thanks.
jor
93 225
95 300
97 270
99 320

Re: King Control Throttle & Cruise

Reply #7 –
Air Throttle and TPS drawing on Gillig Chassis attached. All of us with the King Control are facing the same issue. Will be following this discussion very closely.
Charles
W5CRY
1997 Dynasty - Sold

Re: King Control Throttle & Cruise

Reply #8 –
I'll tell you one thing that every owner of a King Control (or a Bendix cruise control) equipped coach should do - keep a close eye on the throttle cable.

In the first post jor mentioned the Forum member who broke down.  King Control  They suffered a failed King Control throttle cable.  Fortunately they were able to buy one from Cruise King.    Semi Truck, Bus, RV, Service Vehicle Cruise Control Installation

5 years ago I caught our throttle cable in the last stages of outer sheath decomposition and was luckily able to repair it.  Williams Controls WM453109 Air Throttle Valve

Those cables operate in very hostile conditions due to engine heat, vibration, and road dirt.  It would behoove each owner to do all they can to keep the cable well lubed and protected as much as possible.  Watch the outer sheath for signs of rot or abrasion.  Check occasionally to see if you are getting full travel at the engine fuel lever when the throttle pedal is "floored".  If the cable starts binding up inside the outer sheath it will affect throttle lever travel AND eventually start breaking the inner cable wire strands.  These parts are very hard, if not impossible, to find so try to make your cable last as long as possible.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: King Control Throttle & Cruise

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
I'll tell you one thing that every owner of a King Control (or a Bendix cruise control) equipped coach should do - keep a close eye on the throttle cable.

Those cables operate in very hostile conditions due to engine heat, vibration, and road dirt.  It would behoove each owner to do all they can to keep the cable well lubed and protected as much as possible.  Watch the outer sheath for signs of rot or abrasion.  Check occasionally to see if you are getting full travel at the engine fuel lever when the throttle pedal is "floored".  If the cable starts binding up inside the outer sheath it will affect throttle lever travel AND eventually start breaking the inner cable wire strands.  These parts are very hard, if not impossible, to find so try to make your cable last as long as possible.

Stop thinking OEM and instead think of who might make one of these for me?

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Cables - Motion Pro
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: King Control Throttle & Cruise

Reply #10 –
 It would be easy to use Hydraulics clutch system to run the throttle . Add a MC for the cruise to run and it would work fine. You could mount a TPS on any of the levers to feed the ECU.

Re: King Control Throttle & Cruise

Reply #11 –
Update:
OK. I have decided what I am going to do about my King Control problem. I've decided to replace the King throttle with an air throttle and the King cruise with a Rostra unit. I am collecting parts now. I'll do follow up posts as it comes together.
jor
93 225
95 300
97 270
99 320

Re: King Control Throttle & Cruise

Reply #12 –
FYI, temporarily running a pull wire/string/etc from front driver position to injector pump throttle lever will always keep us from being 'stuck' with a King Throttle Control failure.

Re: King Control Throttle & Cruise

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Barry & Cindy –
FYI, temporarily running a pull wire/string/etc from front driver position to injector pump throttle lever will always keep us from being 'stuck' with a King Throttle Control failure.

Correct.

And, if the string runs through a short section of scrap PVC pipe, the bed can almost be closed.

Remember, if throttle hangs up, you can always turn off the ignition.  You WILL loose power steering, but brakes will work just fine for well more than you need to stop (until air pressure drops too low).

Don't have a long enough string, BUY ONE. The option of having someone else in the bedroom with a short string and yelling will quickly LOOSE YOU YOUR CO PILOT! If wife, this could be a lot more expensive than going to buy string!

No, don't buy jute string-- spring for the good stuff.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020
 

Re: King Control Throttle & Cruise

Reply #14 –
We found a more direct route with holes drilled near floor level.  Also floor run allows wire/string not to be in the way of using coach.

We used single solid electric wire instead of string.