Jones Resonator Installation

Topic: Jones Resonator Installation (Read 1293 times) previous topic - next topic

Jones Resonator Installation

October 07, 2021, 07:08:52 pm

Because of all the heat issues we've had the past year, I was wanting to install a resonator, add to that the fact that our original muffler was getting pretty rusty and I decided it was time to get this job done before we headed out across the country. I also recall someone asking for before and after sound files under load, so I took some video on the same stretch of highway, going uphill (2% grade) for the first part of the videos - the start and stop points were the same - I did my best to maintain 60 mph on both runs (speed went up a bit with the resonator on - about 62) and had the accelerator all the way to the floor for both of these.

I also took some clips at idle with a sound meter so you can see the difference in volume - went from approximately 100db to 104db with the engine open, standing next to the tailpipe at the same distance in both.

After debating between the Jones, MBRP and Magnaflow - the jones won out because it would arrive in the time frame I had (was leaving on a trip) and I liked that it did not choke down to 4" inside (though I've read that does not matter) - keeping it at 5" which seemed to be the best way to eliminate as much heat as possible from the engine as well.

The entire install took about 3 hours, including removing the old muffler - after reading of others struggling to remove it, I drove the back end up on a pile of gravel, pumped the rear airbags full, placed safety pipes between the frame members and had just enough room to pull the old muffler out from under the side of the rig at the aft end. I gave up trying to undo the bolts holding the old muffler in and just cut them with a saw.

I needed about 8" of flex pipe, which I salvaged from the old system (previous exhaust repair) and cut a short segment of straight 5" pipe to connect all the pieces at the end.

Following the install I wrapped the whole resonator with a 36"x36" square heat blanket (2000Â°f) .

Very happy with the end product - After putting 1500 miles on it this week I have noticed fuel economy improved by 2mpg easily - noticed a little more power, but as the main point of this was to eliminate heat, I'm happy.

Parts used:
- Jones Turbine Muffler JT5050XL Resonated: Amazon.com: Jones Turbine Muffler JT5050XL Resonated : Automotive

- 5" Exhaust clamps (got 4 plus used salvaged one off the old parts): Amazon.com: 2PCS 5" Inch Exhaust Clamps Stainless Steel for 5" Inner...

- 5" Exhaust 90 elbow - 12 inch length (shorter would have worked better - 8 inch): Amazon.com: EXHAUST ELBOW, 5 inch, 90 degree,12 inch length : Automotive

- 5" Exhaust 45 elbow - 9 inch length (Came late, so I used the one that was on the old system - it got a little bent out of shape and had a small rust hole I needed to patch up - wish this had come in time): Amazon.com: Diamond Eye - CLAMP Band 3-1/2in METRIC HARDWARE 430 SS (BC350S43...

- Exhaust Hanger: Amazon.com: Walker 35944 Exhaust System Hanger : Automotive

- Fiberglass heat wrap: Amazon.com: ANTS PART 20Pcs Ties + 2 Roll x 50FT Black Motorcycle Exhaust...

- Stainless Steel Zip ties: Amazon.com: Vktech 100pcs Stainless Steel Exhaust Wrap Coated Locking Cable...

- Heat blanket: Amazon.com: High Temperature Header/Exhaust Wrap Heat Aluminized Shielding...

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #1 – October 07, 2021, 10:00:54 pm

Very. Nice. I did the magnaflow for the added DB drop and because it was twice the weight. It is noticeably cooler and louder. Most notable when I'm quietly sneaking threw the gated neighborhoods I'm not allowed in at two am parking. I can tell no difference inside. The rap will cause increased corrosion however its a trade off for heat for me. I will be looking at a turbo and manifold blanket also this winter. I really didn't think i saw a fuel economy increase at all and am surprised to hear 2 mpg. What does this bring you up to for economy. I got 9.6 mpg over the past 5000 miles no toad but running 75 generally. 2001 320 3610. I currently use 1" polystyrene foam under the bed and am planning on going to 2"
Scott

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #2 – October 08, 2021, 01:10:06 am

I was getting 6-6.5 - so far this trip, the lowest I've seen was 6.7 going over the rocky mountains and 8.2 going from western Wyoming to South Dakota - next fill-up will be after the flatlands of Minnesota to Missouri, can't wait to see how that looks. I know it's not much test data yet, but hoping once I get my issues with the turbo fixed to see at least 9 (boost is running 2-4 psi most of the time with peaks on steep inclines with full acceleration up to 15psi). Still got some engine issues to work out and sadly my overheating, while better, is not yet gone...

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #3 – October 08, 2021, 02:19:13 am

Quote from: Kidspot – October 08, 2021, 01:10:06 am

get my issues with the turbo fixed to see at least 9 (boost is running 2-4 psi most of the time with peaks on steep inclines with full acceleration up to 15psi).

So with my 2001 i regularly run at 24-28 psi of boost. Never at 2-4. On some days I've seen as hi as 30. This is as reported by a Bluefire. You do have issues that need to be addressed. This will cause overfueling and will run hot.
Scott

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #4 – October 08, 2021, 03:29:29 am

Quote from: Kidspot – October 08, 2021, 01:10:06 am

I was getting 6-6.5 - so far this trip, the lowest I've seen was 6.7 going over the rocky mountains and 8.2 going from western Wyoming to South Dakota - next fill-up will be after the flatlands of Minnesota to Missouri, can't wait to see how that looks. I know it's not much test data yet, but hoping once I get my issues with the turbo fixed to see at least 9 (boost is running 2-4 psi most of the time with peaks on steep inclines with full acceleration up to 15psi). Still got some engine issues to work out and sadly my overheating, while better, is not yet gone...

You need to get that fixed post haste. You think it's hot via reading the water temp gauge? It's the EGT that will kill a diesel really fast. I had a turbo come apart on my Mack Semi-truck. So zero boost. Even on a small hill my EGT skyrocketed past 1300-1400 degrees and was climbing and the water temp had not budged yet. So I shut it down in the middle of Wyoming and waited for a tow truck. As my truck had a pyrometer. I saved my engine from any melted pistons or warped cylinder head. Most coaches don't have a pyrometer. So be very, very careful.

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #5 – October 08, 2021, 08:50:15 am

Quote from: bigdog – October 08, 2021, 03:29:29 am

You need to get that fixed post haste. You think it's hot via reading the water temp gauge? It's the EGT that will kill a diesel really fast. I had a turbo come apart on my Mack Semi-truck. So zero boost. Even on a small hill my EGT skyrocketed past 1300-1400 degrees and was climbing and the water temp had not budged yet. So I shut it down in the middle of Wyoming and waited for a tow truck. As my truck had a pyrometer. I saved my engine from any melted pistons or warped cylinder head. Most coaches don't have a pyrometer. So be very, very careful.

I only recently started monitoring the boost pressure (500 miles ago) most likely it's been this way since we got it 12,000 miles ago as the engine has performed this way since the start - oddly we've had it in 6 different shops now trying to resolve the overheating (including FOT) and no one picked up on this. So we are finishing our journey to TN (where we will be overwintering) and get it into the Cummins dealer there. Meantime we run slow and at 1800 rpm.

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #6 – October 08, 2021, 09:37:31 am

The EASY part-- start by verifying all connections and "plumbing" are in good condition:

Turbo to CAC
CAC to intake manifold
Intake manifold to air compressor

Next would be the CAC

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #7 – October 08, 2021, 10:36:33 am

Two MPG would be a 20%-25% improvement. I can't see anything more that 2% improvement at most unless the stock muffler has had an interior baffle come loose and was blocking the outlet. Fuel mileage varies hugely by topography, wind and speed. Going up Highway 1 from Morro Bay to Monterey drops our mileage to just over 5 mph but from the Sierras to San Francisco, it goes up to 12 mpg on the ProLink. Only the same trip in the same conditions can the fuel mileage be compared and only accurately on shorter trips with an electronic engine readout. With access to the engine computer, you should be able to see exactly how many gallons and mpg you have used since the coach was new and also be able to setup trip mpg. And the reading does not consider the fuel consumed by the generator if diesel so very accurate.

Elevation will effect boost pressures. Less on waste gate turbos.

Many resonators are stainless inside/outside so a wrap will not effect the stainless. Unless the engine is frequently started and stopped, there should not be any moisture between the wrap and exhaust pipe. On the other hand, if the engine is started and turned off before the moisture evaporates, it may work on the pipe, especially if there are any traces of winter road treatment chemicals in the wrap under the coach.

Pierce

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #8 – October 08, 2021, 12:35:16 pm

Pierce, I bet Kidspot just forgot to add a decimal point in front in that first post as in a following post he said it was 6.5 and went to 6.7.

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #9 – October 08, 2021, 06:43:34 pm

Quote from: bigdog – October 08, 2021, 12:35:16 pm

Pierce, I bet Kidspot just forgot to add a decimal point in front in that first post as in a following post he said it was 6.5 and went to 6.7.

Our average for the past 8,000 miles has been 6.5mph - this current trip the lowest we have seen is 6.7 going over the Rocky Mountains and once we got over the Rockies it went up to 8.1. Hope that clears it up

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #10 – October 08, 2021, 06:46:00 pm

Kidspot--what are you towing-- I get 7.5 to 8 towing Jeep Cherokee and 6.5 to 7 towing 3/4 ton truck
Chris

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #11 – October 08, 2021, 06:52:55 pm

Quote from: Chris m lang – October 08, 2021, 06:46:00 pm

Kidspot--what are you towing-- I get 7.5 to 8 towing Jeep Cherokee and 6.5 to 7 towing 3/4 ton truck
Chris

Just a little Honda cr-v ... we still have issues we're working on. I'll post a separate post for that I think.

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #12 – October 08, 2021, 07:57:23 pm

Quote from: Kidspot – October 08, 2021, 06:43:34 pm

Our average for the past 8,000 miles has been 6.5mph - this current trip the lowest we have seen is 6.7 going over the Rocky Mountains and once we got over the Rockies it went up to 8.1. Hope that clears it up

When you get the boost fixed you will probably get way better fuel milage.

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #13 – October 10, 2021, 11:00:55 pm

So somehow I thought we had a variable geometry turbo on our coaches. Further hands on viewing revealed no external actuator. So I'm assuming that we have a straight turbo with no waste gate or controllable exhaust restrictions. That being said boost would be limited by fuel being delivered balanced from boost pressure switch, ECM requirements and power demands. I read that the ISM500 did have a variable geometry turbo integrated into ECM control. Although more is always better in regards to horsepower I think there also would be some efficiency gains to be had. I read several other forum members have incorporated these updates. If I was involved with a failed turbo I would definitely look closer at these mods before replacement possibly for these improved efficiency possibilities. Anyway close attention should be paid to the boost switch and wiring since it plays a large part in control I think.
Scott

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #14 – October 11, 2021, 10:03:51 am

Without a waste gate, the maximum boost pressure will start dropping as soon as you leave sea level. With a wastegate, the boost will remain the same as it was at sea level until you reach about 8000 feet. This is known as the "critical altitude."

Water cooled turbos and intercoolers are also available. Porsche went to a water cooled intercooler in the late 917s and increased the hp from 1100 to 1200 hp.

Or for much more efficiency with a 2 cycle diesel, get rid of the Roots blower and fit electric turbos like EMD does on the locomotives and marine 2 strokes do. Computer controlled, they use juice to spin up to start and then turn off the juice once enough exhaust is passing through.

Pierce

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #15 – October 11, 2021, 10:53:22 am

Our '99 ISM has no wastegate and gets to 30 psi. boost.

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #16 – October 11, 2021, 01:22:46 pm

Quote from: craneman – October 11, 2021, 10:53:22 am

Our '99 ISM has no wastegate and gets to 30 psi. boost.

OK, I was wrong about the waste gate. I removed my post to avoid confusing the issue.

Since I am only familiar with my all-mechanical engine, i should avoid making statements about the newer electronic versions.

How is boost pressure regulated?

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #17 – October 11, 2021, 02:19:43 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – October 11, 2021, 01:22:46 pm

OK, I was wrong about the waste gate. How is boost pressure regulated?

Back to boost pressure switch and ECM defueling boost levels is all i can see.

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #18 – October 11, 2021, 04:53:28 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – October 11, 2021, 01:22:46 pm

OK, I was wrong about the waste gate. I removed my post to avoid confusing the issue.

Since I am only familiar with my all-mechanical engine, i should avoid making statements about the newer electronic versions.

How is boost pressure regulated?

His was kinda why I mentioned this. I thought we had the variable geometry turbo also but no external controls. Ill look closer tomorrow and snap a couple pictures. New stuff to learn every day
Scott

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #19 – October 11, 2021, 06:16:41 pm

If there is no waste gate or variable vanes, the boost just depends on compressor mapping. It's not that easy to get it right as there is about a million possibilities depending on the size of the engine, the rpm range, the amount of boost you want to have, etc, etc. Here is a good place to start: Gain Turbocharger Technology Expertise from Garrett Motion

In marine use or some buses/coaches, a Detroit will have a pair of smaller turbos instead of one larger one. This brings in the horsepower at lower rpm, important in a big boat so it can pop it up on a plane quickly. Two turbos also allow a lower floor on a boat as they are usually mounted at the end of the engine rather that the top. 550 hp is pretty typical for our 6V-92TA with the big spenders willing to sacrifice shorter TBO for 630 hp out of our Foretravel 350 hp engines.

Pierce

Re: Jones Resonator Installation

Reply #20 – February 08, 2022, 01:09:56 am

I don't want to get off subject but can anyone recommend a good shop to get this done? I live in the Dallas area but will also travel to NAC next month to MOT to troubleshoot dash air that was repaired their last year. Thanks.

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