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Topic: Victron Orion-TR Smart battery to battery charger installation problems (Read 1021 times) previous topic - next topic

Victron Orion-TR Smart battery to battery charger installation problems

My 8D lead acid coach batteries are on their last leg. Overnight in Quartzite with lots of propane heater use, a little TV watching I was consuming 90 to 115 amp hours with a resting voltage of 12.1 or less volts before the solar started kicking into gear. These are 240 amp hour batteries in parallel for a theoretical 480 amp hours of capacity, 240 amp hour useful to 50 percent.
I have a 1998 U270 with the mechanical C8.3. I'm converting to two 8d 300 amp hour lithium batteries. I've installed a Victron 30 amp non isolated Orion B2B charger to replace my original battery isolator. Following a schematic suggested by Roger who was at Q, I removed the original isolator, brought the engine alternator lead onto a new junction block, from there also connected a lead to the start battery via the original battery boost solenoid (start battery side) and added a lead from the new junction block to the input side of the B2B. The output side of the B2B went to the house side of the boost solenoid.
When I reconnected the start battery ground I got a big spark, the dash instrument lights came on (as if the key was in the ignition and turned on). After many disconnections of various leads it turns out this only happens when the alternator cable from the engine is attached to the new junction block. The engine starts, runs normally, and everything appears to work if the engine alternator lead is not in the system. It will also start and run if the alternator is connected and charges the chassis batteries according to the dash alternator gauge. But after turning the key off dash still lit up.
I'm stumped. Supposed to leave Albuquerque on Sunday. It's taken me a couple days to work through a bunch of combinations. Wondering if the original isolator had a diode that prevented voltage from flowing back toward the alternator and this is what causes my current problems. Very tired and frustrated.
1998 36 foot U270 Build No. 5328 WTFE, 900 watts solar, Victron controller, B2B, bat monitor, 600 AMPH lithium with 2018 Chevy Colorado toad, SKP #110239, Motorcade #17781, 2021 Escape 17B for when Coach is broken down and campsites are too small, retired and full-timer since Dec. 2020. Part of RV family since 1963.

Re: Victron Orion-TR Smart battery to battery charger installation problems

Reply #1 –
Symptoms would lead one to think that ignition wire to the small terminal on the alternator is being powered from the start battery. See if the back-feed problem goes away if you remove the small ignition wire at the alternator. The other small alternator wire is the voltage sense and is connected to house battery voltage.

Re: Victron Orion-TR Smart battery to battery charger installation problems

Reply #2 –
Patrick, did you remove the small jumper wire (if there was one) from the green wire block?  These can be used for a variety of remote on/off switch options.  In normal operation, it appears these connection points are not used. 

The Orion will turn on when incoming voltage exceeds 14v and will shut itself down when voltage conning from the alternator/start battery side drops below 13.5.  This is engine and alternator on to start the Orion and engine and alternator off to turn it off.


"Separation of the starter battery and the service battery

The Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC Charger Non-Isolated separates the starter battery from the service battery when the engine is not running."

If you are using an OEM LN alternator make sure the sense wire is connected to the sense post, it should see voltage all the time.  Make sure the excite wire is connected to the excite post, it should only see voltage if the ignition is on.
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: Victron Orion-TR Smart battery to battery charger installation problems

Reply #3 –
I believe my alternator is not wired properly. The sense wire terminal is jumpered to the ignition wire terminal. Having a hard time getting a clear picture, but from left to right the terminal labels in the photo shows "to terminal of DUVAC", "ignition switch," and "battery" (barely visible to far right. This alternator was put on by Nacogdoches Motorhome Services while my brake pins were being serviced. The alternator gave out on the way to Nac.

When I first bought the coach it was not charging well, and Foretravel said the alternator was missing a sense wire, and my understanding is that they corrected that situation. I don't see a sense wire, but I haven't got my safety stands installed yet this morning so will do some additional poking around. Could this missing "sense" wire be the culprit? Would jumpering the sense wire to the ignition switch cause a back feed to the ignition circuit that the original isolator masked? Thanks for the replies so far, they are really helping.
1998 36 foot U270 Build No. 5328 WTFE, 900 watts solar, Victron controller, B2B, bat monitor, 600 AMPH lithium with 2018 Chevy Colorado toad, SKP #110239, Motorcade #17781, 2021 Escape 17B for when Coach is broken down and campsites are too small, retired and full-timer since Dec. 2020. Part of RV family since 1963.

Re: Victron Orion-TR Smart battery to battery charger installation problems

Reply #4 –
If the rest of the charging system is OEM that wiring on the back of the alternator ain't going to play well with the rest of the system. You are missing a wire that may be looped back over and hid in the wire loom.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Victron Orion-TR Smart battery to battery charger installation problems

Reply #5 –
Mike,
I just found the wire E59 that is supposed to go to the sensor post  cut and tucked back into the harness near the alternator! Having removed the jumper, I ran a fused test wire from the alternator output lead that used to go to the center lug of the isolator and connected it to the positive post of the start battery. No sparks and the dash remained silent.

Should there always be constant 12 volt from the start battery to E59. If so, I can test it with my test light to see if it still has voltage. I can't find the circuit breaker that is supposed to be near the isolator and have no idea where to find that circuit breaker at the moment. I am sending you a PM with my phone number if you have time for a chat.

Just tested the E59 - it has 12 volts so it is probably functional. Getting ready to add a pigtail and connect to the sense lead of the alternator.
 
1998 36 foot U270 Build No. 5328 WTFE, 900 watts solar, Victron controller, B2B, bat monitor, 600 AMPH lithium with 2018 Chevy Colorado toad, SKP #110239, Motorcade #17781, 2021 Escape 17B for when Coach is broken down and campsites are too small, retired and full-timer since Dec. 2020. Part of RV family since 1963.

Re: Victron Orion-TR Smart battery to battery charger installation problems

Reply #6 –
I am pretty sure this is the back end of a LN alternator.  Sense wire is always hot (should have a fuse or CB). Excite is hot when ing is on.  It too should have a fuse or CB.

Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: Victron Orion-TR Smart battery to battery charger installation problems

Reply #7 –
Big step forward, but not to home plate yet.  I've resolved the alternator back feed. Found the sense wire tucked into the harness, confirmed that it still had voltage, reconnected it, and the alternator is charging at 14.02 volts as measured at the start batteries with engine running. Everything connected: Trik L Start, booster for the tire pressure monitoring system, and toad charge system are all working normal. However, the B2B charger indicates it is off because "remote input inactive."
1998 36 foot U270 Build No. 5328 WTFE, 900 watts solar, Victron controller, B2B, bat monitor, 600 AMPH lithium with 2018 Chevy Colorado toad, SKP #110239, Motorcade #17781, 2021 Escape 17B for when Coach is broken down and campsites are too small, retired and full-timer since Dec. 2020. Part of RV family since 1963.

Re: Victron Orion-TR Smart battery to battery charger installation problems

Reply #8 –
Check the engine on detection voltage in the app.  It might be higher at normal operating speeds, you might need to increase the LN output voltage to 14.2 or 14.3.

The Orion turns on the it detects a minimum voltage,  there may be a time delay as well.
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: Victron Orion-TR Smart battery to battery charger installation problems

Reply #9 –
I'm sitting here plugged into the shore power. That might be spoofing the b2b. Thanks
1998 36 foot U270 Build No. 5328 WTFE, 900 watts solar, Victron controller, B2B, bat monitor, 600 AMPH lithium with 2018 Chevy Colorado toad, SKP #110239, Motorcade #17781, 2021 Escape 17B for when Coach is broken down and campsites are too small, retired and full-timer since Dec. 2020. Part of RV family since 1963.

Re: Victron Orion-TR Smart battery to battery charger installation problems

Reply #10 –
The Victron needed the little plug with jumper wire to start charging. Not real clear in the manual but found others having the same problem with no charging.
1998 36 foot U270 Build No. 5328 WTFE, 900 watts solar, Victron controller, B2B, bat monitor, 600 AMPH lithium with 2018 Chevy Colorado toad, SKP #110239, Motorcade #17781, 2021 Escape 17B for when Coach is broken down and campsites are too small, retired and full-timer since Dec. 2020. Part of RV family since 1963.

Re: Victron Orion-TR Smart battery to battery charger installation problems

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Realmccoy –
The Victron needed the little plug with jumper wire to start charging. Not real clear in the manual but found others having the same problem with no charging.

I had the same issue/problem but the DW threw the jumper away!  Bay Marine supplied me with another.

2000 GV320 4010 build #5712  2019-?
1999 Bounder 2000-2008
Bardstown, KY
🥃The Bourbon Capital of the World🥃

Re: Victron Orion-TR Smart battery to battery charger installation problems

Reply #12 –
If you use the jumper is it on all the time?  Maybe the wiring scheme whereby an ignition source turns it on would be better or at least a switch to allow the user to turn it off.

The instruction say for a charger set up in section 4.3  to remove the jumper (remote start), make the battery connections and then reconnect the remote start. 

I have my Sterling B2B configured to only run when the ignition is on and then with an additional switch to interrupt the ignition source if I don't want it on if the ignition is on.  Many times solar is sufficient for charging while driving.
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN
 

Re: Victron Orion-TR Smart battery to battery charger installation problems

Reply #13 –
It only runs when the engine is running. Didn't work at all until I installed the green plug with jumper wire.
1998 36 foot U270 Build No. 5328 WTFE, 900 watts solar, Victron controller, B2B, bat monitor, 600 AMPH lithium with 2018 Chevy Colorado toad, SKP #110239, Motorcade #17781, 2021 Escape 17B for when Coach is broken down and campsites are too small, retired and full-timer since Dec. 2020. Part of RV family since 1963.