Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

Topic: Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs (Read 1935 times) previous topic - next topic

Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

June 07, 2021, 05:09:21 pm

Painting the roof has been on my project list for some time. We have no roof cracks, no leaks, and a few minor scratches. The roof is not particularly slippery but weathered and chalky.

We have solar panels to work around or remove for the best possible job. It seems like a good time to replace the nearly 21 year old ACs especially since Furrions were on sale for about 20% off with free shipping. So the old ACs came off and will go on Craig's list. And the DirecTV satellite dish is getting moved 6" to the passenger's side to allow more room on the driver's side for another 730 watts of solar panels.

I used TotalBoat Wet Edge Topside Polyurethane primer and paint.
TotalBoat Wet Edge Topside Paint

And added ThermaCel microscopic insulating beads for insulation and surface texture
Amazon.com: ThermaCels - Insulating Paint Additive 1 Gallon Package: Home...

Total cost for the roof coating was about $395 for paint, primer, ThermaCels, painting supplies. I have the primer on and two coats of finish paint.

The solar panels came off the same way we got them on. Pretty dirty underneath in spite of efforts to wash. ACs came off the same way, not easy but it works.

The entire roof was washed and sanded with 220 grit paper on a random orbital sander connected to a vacuum. The areas around the mounts, horns and all the other stuff in the way was done by hand. The vent for the LP refrig was removed and is getting replaced with an aluminum plate which provides a cableway for the solar panel cables. The satellite dish is mounted on a 3/16" thick aluminum plate that gets attached to roof structure. Moving it 6" to one side meant some new curved spacers that fit the roof curve and keep the dish level. There is no plug for the power and control cables to the satellite so some moving it around was needed as painting progressed. Fortunately it balances nicely on a pair of panel mount. All of the prep time including removing panels and AC units was about 10 hrs.

Priming day was over 100 degrees. I cleaned up once more and wiped everything down with acetone. I finished up all of the taping I thought was needed (I did more the next day). I waited until almost 8 PM for the temp to get below 90 degrees, the upper temperature limit for painting. I painted around all of brackets, horns etc and called it a day.

The next morning I was painting by 7:15 and got the prime coat finished. The coach sat outside baking and outside overnight. Total priming time was about 3 hours.

The next morning was the first color coat day. I used 1/3 of the ceramic beads and about 2/3 of a gallon of the white TopSide paint. The coach sat outside all day and back into the barn overnight. There was a minor chance of rain. The first coat took about 2.5 hours.

The second color coat had the remaining beads mixed in. I got the coach out and swept the leaf bits off and blew it off with compressed air as I worked. I painted around all of the things still on the roof (brush and small roller) and then got busy with a 9" roller on the rest of it. The satellite dish is balanced on panel mounts as it was the day before. The second coat took about 2 hours. Maybe I was getting better at it with experience. Polyurethane paint is not one to work very much. Put it on, smooth it out and be done with it. Too much doesn't help.

It looks great. I have enough paint for a third coat and then a bit left over for touchups as needed. It is white, reflective and has plenty of anti-slip texture, just what we were hoping for. It should be much easier to keep clean too.

This project requires quite a bit of on the roof time, not something many are comfortable doing. For the most part for anything near the edge I was sitting on the roof. Rolling on the paint was me mostly in the center of the roof. I was going to get it done at Xtreme but with the solar panels I was able to do it for about 10% of what it would have cost me to have them do it. If you have access to an indoor space with high ceilings take advantage of it. At Habitat any work where there is a potential for an 8 foot fall we have to wear fall protection. An 8 foot will just be engaging the fall protection equipment, you will hit the ground below but not head first. On the roof of your coach it is 12 feet to the ground. maybe 17 to 18 feet for your head to the ground. It would be ideal to have the coach surrounded on four sides with scaffolding to 10 feet high and safety railings.

Be very careful up there. I had several friends worried about my well being on the roof, I appreciate their concern on my behalf.

When all is done I will post a final set of pictures.

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Re: Roof Coating

Reply #1 – June 07, 2021, 05:42:58 pm

Looking good Roger!

Re: Roof Coating

Reply #2 – June 07, 2021, 06:09:14 pm

Roger, what did you use for primer? How many gallons of primer and how many gallons of paint did you use?

Re: Roof Coating

Reply #3 – June 07, 2021, 06:25:06 pm

Quote from: craneman – June 07, 2021, 06:09:14 pm

Roger, what did you use for primer? How many gallons of primer and how many gallons of paint did you use?

Chuck,

TotalBoat has a polyurethane primer for this paint. For my 36 ft coach I used almost the entire gallon of primer and about 1 1/3 gallons of paint. The ceramic beads for 1 gallon of finish paint (that is what I used) add volume, about 1.5 quarts, and I added about 5% of the recommended thinner to both the primer and the finish paint to retard drying time, that was another 20 oz.

I got a coupon for 10% off from TotalBoat when I went to their website.

A gallon of primer should do a 40 ft coach. I'd get 2 gallons of finish paint. The ThermaCels folks recommend three coats.

The recommended roller for this paint is a 1/8" foam roller. Probably perfect for a boat but hard to find. I used a 3/16" nap roller that is used for epoxy. It seemed to work fine, maybe leaving a more textured surface but that was the objective.

Re: Roof Coating

Reply #4 – June 07, 2021, 08:19:46 pm

Looks awesome! Nice work on the roof

Re: Roof Coating

Reply #5 – June 13, 2021, 08:01:54 pm

Another great job Roger & Susan!
Thanks for the details and links.

Re: Roof Coating

Reply #6 – June 13, 2021, 10:51:54 pm

Thanks, New Furrion ACs go up tomorrow (knee willing), satellite dish gets set in it's new position and the solar panels come back-up too.

Re: Roof Coating

Reply #7 – June 14, 2021, 10:36:38 pm

We rented a material lift to get the ACs and solar panels on the roof. Worked well. Saved a bunch of time and is a safe way to do it. The lift gets high enough to be above to coach roof.

All of the insides of the AC holes got cleaned up and covered with aluminum foil tape earlier before the ACs were set in place. Once the boxes were up on the roof I took the ACs out of the box and set them in place. Small adjustments are easy from inside.

Then the solar panels went up one at a time and set in place. The satellite dish was shifted 6" to the passenger's side, easy when it is mounted on a plate.

Tomorrow I have to route and attach the solar cables, attach the cover for the old refrigerator vent, and finish bolting the solar panels to the mounts. Then inside work to finish hooking up the Furrions. So far all is good.

The roof paint is very reflective and provides a great deal of traction. I like it. I used Frog tape and it left a lot of residue that is going to have to get cleaned up. If I was going to do it again I probably would have gone another inch or so further down the curve of the corner.

I have to thank Ed W (Ed Whittleder) for his lead and ideas on the roof painting process.
And Beeman (Jeff Lendroth) for working through the Furrion wiring process.
Like so many projects we do they quickly become collaborations when we share good ideas and add some of our own. It is much more fun to learn from each other and to help each other out when we can. Thanks!

Re: Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

Reply #8 – June 15, 2021, 06:33:10 pm

Roger,
Do you have vents throughout the coach for your AC 's?

Can you post a picture of the air distribution box for your new AC?

Re: Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

Reply #9 – June 15, 2021, 08:09:42 pm

2001 was the first year with full length AC ducting. I will take pictures of the internal parts as I work on it.

Re: Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

Reply #10 – June 15, 2021, 10:03:09 pm

Roger
What is the height of your garage door opening (seems I remember 12'). My RV Bay opening is 12' and I'm thinking of replacing my 20 yr old units also but the current Penguin's have 3 inches to spare.

Re: Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

Reply #11 – June 15, 2021, 11:34:40 pm

The opening is 12'-0" concrete to framing. There is a 3/4" stop at the top for the doors and a 7/8" threshold/door stop at the bottom. So 11'-10 3/8". When we put coach back into the barn last night I backed up until the rear wheels were up against the threshold and stopped. I climbed up the ladder to look, there is plenty of room, about 3-4 inches. Susan wasn't too sure they were going to fit.

The ACs are snugged down. Tightening to the specified torque will compress the mounting gaskets another 5/16".

I will try to get a picture with the new AC right at the door opening.

Re: Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

Reply #12 – June 16, 2021, 11:45:36 pm

I checked clearance when backing into the barn. 2" roll of tape for reference. There is about 3.5" clearance. That puts me at about 11'-8". Up about 4" from before.

I am done on the roof except for some tape residue cleanup and touchup. I removed the old refrigerator vent and made an aluminum plate to fit. The holes line up with the original holes. The plate has a raised section that lets solar cables enter the coach without any bulky boxes or fittings. The plate needs another coat of roof paint or two.

Re: Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

Reply #13 – June 17, 2021, 12:40:09 am

Mr. Engdahl,

I wish I was as talented as you are.

This is meant as a compliment from somebody who probably suffers from Kruger-Dunning.

Regards

Klaus

Re: Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

Reply #14 – June 18, 2021, 07:51:33 pm

Another job well done.

Re: Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

Reply #15 – June 18, 2021, 09:45:11 pm

Report!

Like Jeff, I cleaned up the opening through the roof and lined it with aluminum foil tape. Wires were carefully wrapped and sealed. The inside distribution box is much like the Dometics. Four long bolts go up through the box into the bottom of the roof top unit. They get tightened to 45 in lbs which compresses the sealing gasket. There is another white plastic part that fits up against the white piece show. It presses up into the foam at the top. Then a sticky backed sheet of moldable foam seals up all of these parts and along the top and sides.

There are lots of wires, confusing until you realize that half are not used when you use the digital thermostat. You set the dip switches for the zone (up to 4) and to enable heating. There are four wires that connect the two ACs to the thermostat. There is a +12v connection and a ground connection. And two brown wires for the furnace. One connects to the furnace or AH wire and the other goes to ground. The AH connection was the confusing part to me. I was thinking it had to be one way and it was not. Jeff documented these connections well. I used a six wire phone jacks with short cat 5 wire to connect to the four wires at each AC unit and the thermostat. I used 4 of the 8 possible wires, several spares. This let me leave the existing wiring unmodified.

My 120v wires were about 8" short. I got rid of a junction box and extended the 12ga 120v wires using a non-metallic splice kit. These eliminate a junction box and are approved for an inaccessible connection.

The Furrion thermostat allows you to control each zone independently. It fits where the old thermostat was located using the existing six wire phone cable.

The front inside air distribution cover has lights in it and if the vents are closed air goes into the duct work. If you don't have duct work then you can open either a front or rear outlet or both.

The rear cover has lights as well, high and low Kelvin temp white light, red, green, blue, purple and probable some other color. It would have been nice if they were dimmable.

So it is done, front and rear ACs ran this morning for and hour or so each, both LR and BR AH came on, no heat, it was in the 90s today. Fans only work, three speeds. And you can set it on Auto to heat or cool as required.

Today was a cleanup day, put everything away, tidied up in the barn, same in the coach. Some vacuuming required.

Pretty nice. The cost of 2 Furrion 15.5K BTU ACs, 2 air distribution boxes and interior covers, 2 multi zone controllers, and the thermostat was $1786 including shipping (plus tax). And I sold my almost 21 year old Dometics today for $500!

The ACs are quieter inside, hard to quantify but noticeable, probably because the sound is different, much more steady, less thrumming. Outside ... I think it makes more noise but the coach is in the barn and that might change when it comes out.

Another project, roof painting and new ACs, worth doing, it will make our coach time better, best reason to do anything.

Thanks for all the thumbs up. I hope this inspires others to take on projects that they can do themselves.

Re: Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

Reply #16 – June 19, 2021, 09:34:03 am

Amazon.com: ThermaCels - Insulating Paint Additive 1 Gallon Package: Home... And added ThermaCel microscopic insulating beads for insulation and surface texture

Hoping we get some feedback on these. Hard to imagine without hands on experience
Scott

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Re: Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

Reply #17 – June 19, 2021, 10:10:38 am

Scott, these are very small hollow ceramic spheres that mix in with the paint. They do provide insulation but the primary goal was texture. One coat on my refrig vent cover plate and it feels like some grit in the paint. They recommend three coats or more for best insulating properties. With the polyurethane paint you want thin coats anyway so I did three. The picture is after a couple coats (plus some refuse from the trees that got brushed off before the last coat). It does show texture anf the shine. The white is very white and shiny. Texture has a nice reassuring feel to it.

The goal was surface protection, ease of cleaning and a textured slip resistant surface. Insulation is a side benefit. When I was on the roof reinstalling stuff the difference in surface temperature between a shaded area and a non-shaded area was significant. Cool to the touch in the shade.

I am sure there are other products out there that would get to the same results. This combination worked for me.

Re: Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

Reply #18 – June 19, 2021, 09:27:32 pm

Roger great job and documentation!
On my to-do list maybe this winter. Was just going to use some non-skid additives to my paint but the ceramic sounds like a good idea.
When I do mine I'm going to do the front half first moving the solar panels back until all primer and top paint is put on, then reinstall the panels and then do the rear. Think I'll do it in Mexico this winter.

Re: Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

Reply #19 – June 19, 2021, 10:10:08 pm

Roger I have a co worker that swears they help in the desert. Added plus they shouldn't weigh as much either. I think it's a win win deal. I'm curious enough to try just for the heat. Was 114 today I think
Scott 👍👍

Re: Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

Reply #20 – May 04, 2022, 06:07:45 pm

Roger, how did you patch the holes from the satellite you moved?

Re: Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

Reply #21 – May 05, 2022, 11:26:08 am

I patched the 4 holes left by shifting the dish mount by sanding through the gel coat (not very hard) with a random orbital sander. it Made a spot about 3" in diameter. The I used a fiberglass repair kit from the auto parts store, mixed up some resin. brushed some on, added a piece of light weight fiberglass fabric (a bit smaller than the sanded spot), pressed it into the resin to make sure it was all wet and there were no air bubbles, added a bit more resin as needed. Make it as flat as possible. Let it cure overnight, it will cure faster but overnight is better. if you have anything sticking up you can sand it off. If you are painting the roof, primer and paint is good to cover it. You can buy brushable gel coat too.

If you just have a screw hole that has not disturbed the fiberglass or gel coat fill the hole with 3M 4000 UV adhesive/sealer and a bump on top to cover the hole.

All of this is on the roof so it doesn't need to be any more than sufficient for the task.

OBTW. Paint is wonderful, so much easier to clean and not slippery at all. Holding up very well after year.

If your coach is white and you use the white paint, I would paint down to the drip rails. It is a very close match.

Re: Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

Reply #22 – May 05, 2022, 11:30:16 am

In addition to Roger's excellent method, another alternative is to use sheet aluminum larger than the affected area. I paint it white so it blends with the roof. Bed in polysulfide with or without ss screws at the corners.

Re: Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

Reply #23 – May 05, 2022, 01:12:16 pm

Great Job Roger.. I always wondered about the Fusion AC and the Aquahot..

How do they cool compared to the old ones?

Re: Roof Coating, New Furrion ACs

Reply #24 – May 05, 2022, 05:36:37 pm

The Furrions got a workout this past winter. When needed they cooled much quicker that the Dometics. I put in remote temperature sensors for the living room and the bedroom. The living room is pretty accurate, the bedroom is off by a few degrees, most likely because I reused the Dometic wiring, that is not too hard to replace. Most of the time we run the rear during the day and if needed the front at night. Pretty rare that we need both. The AH works fine in both the LR and BR using the Furrion multi-zone thermostat. At some point the AH went from closing an open ground to a ground to closing a 12v to ground, maybe 2000. Either way it works fine.

Thermostat is very versatile, programmable, night time setting, auto setting (heat or air as required), and the BR can be AC and the LR can be heat, for example, at the same time.

The only thing I do not like is that the min temperature setting is 60 degrees. If we re leaving the coach heat on as winter approaches we used to set it to 40. I can work around that.

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