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Topic: Spartan Chassis and DEF problems (Read 2311 times) previous topic - next topic

Spartan Chassis and DEF problems

I also read the Entregra forums and there seems to be a lot of problems with DEF.  The coaches owners are getting stranded when the coach goes into limp mode after the DEF tank sensors say there is a problem.  Since Foretravel since 2018 have been built on Spartan Chassis I am wondering if the new coaches are having the same problem.  I do not remember seeing any posts on this site with that problem, but I am not sure how many new owners are members of this forum or at least do many posts.
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: Spartan Chassis and DEF problems

Reply #1 –
Not just motor homes but all Semi trucks have the same plague that have def. No permanent fix is known of and anytime the vehicle is running without issue is just borrowed time because that's the nature of the system as of 2020.. You can read copy and paste until blue in the face but what I said will hold true.
Dub McBride 1996 270

Re: Spartan Chassis and DEF problems

Reply #2 –
Quote from: turbojack –
I am wondering if the new coaches are having the same problem.  I do not remember seeing any posts on this site with that problem, but I am not sure how many new owners are members of this forum or at least do many posts.

My 2013 Nimbus DEF tank level sensor went out and the coach went into limp mode. The silver leaf showed that I was empty on DEF even though I was full. I ordered a new one from FT ($300) and problem solved. DEF has a tendency to crystallize and because it sat parked for a few months the sensor got crystallized. My mechanic said I could have bypassed the tank sensor. Much like a relay.

All newer diesel coaches run DEF. It hasn't been an issue for me, I like the nice amenities of the new coach and running DEF doesn't really matter to me. One thing I do like about it is that I can run my coach in my shop and not smell any exhaust, except water vapor and ammonia ( Urea). 

Re: Spartan Chassis and DEF problems

Reply #3 –
DEF has a shelf life of 3 years if kept below 50 degrees.  Always check the expiration date when purchasing.  If you store the coach in a high temp environment you're guaranteed to have trouble.
Regards,
Brett

'99 42' Foretravel Xtreme
'14 Brown Motorsports Stacker
'05 Chevy SSR
'02 BMW R1150R

Re: Spartan Chassis and DEF problems

Reply #4 –
This is a quote from a Jackson Cook, ASE Master Mechanic.

The basic problems that most DEF systems run into are sensor and injector failures.

You have all the normal engine sensors, which if fails causes the DEF system to fail.

You have, usually, a supplemental diesel injector after the exhaust side of the turbo, used to inject fuel in the exhaust and heat up the cat and particulate filter for "regeneration". If that fails, the DEF system fails. Yes, it injects extra diesel straight into the exhaust, which costs you mpg on top of the cost of DEF fluid.

Then you have two temp sensors, pre and post DEF injector. Two pressure sensors, pre and post particulate filter. Then finally the DEF injector itself. Any of which failing or being out of expected values causes the system to fail.

Any of the those failures begins to slowly cripple/disable the vehicle. Starting usually with a warning, a slow milage countdown and progressively lower speed limit, eventually disabling the vehicle movement completely, requiring you to get towed to a mechanic.

All of these things cannot be repaired at home, generally, even by me (ASE master mechanic). Almost all repairs require vehicle computer programming, which requires expensive equipment mostly only available at the dealer.

I refuse to own a vehicle that can leave me stranded in the name of reducing emissions...

This is why you hear of indiduals disabling the DEF system once their warranty has expired.
Chuck Wiggy
Coloma, Wisconsin
Sold my 1999 U 320 40 Ft. M11 450 hp
Build # 5468
2009 Silverado

Re: Spartan Chassis and DEF problems

Reply #5 –
True that DPF as well as DEF can be disabled but no engine manufacturer certified dealer will work on that engine knowing of it. The penalties are stiff.
Dub McBride 1996 270

Re: Spartan Chassis and DEF problems

Reply #6 –
The nice thing about are old coaches is the is no DEF.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Spartan Chassis and DEF problems

Reply #7 –
Often times goods manufactured under the eyes of "progress" do not benefit the consumer.. In other words sometimes the mouse trap being improved should have been left alone.
Dub McBride 1996 270

Re: Spartan Chassis and DEF problems

Reply #8 –
What year did DEF start to appear on Foretravel Coaches? Particulate filters as well were there two points of entry? I am thinking somewhere around 2008 or 2009? some RVs are different that others depending on chassis build.
Exploring the Foretravel World

Re: Spartan Chassis and DEF problems

Reply #9 –
My 2008 Nimbus has no DEF. I was a must for me that my vehicle not have it. Experienced nothing but problems with my previous tow vehicle, 2011 Silverado 2500 HD. Had to replace almost entire DEF system including tank, pump, lines etc..after a few years. Sensors always gave us problems. Not a fan of it. Didn't want to deal with it again. Sold truck and 5th wheel last year and got Nimbus.  Very happy with it so far, and love the Foretravel community.
Keith and Dawn Hudson #18766
Current- 1999 U295 DFGE 40ft. - Build #5405
Coach Name: 4BUS4US
Previous- 2008 Nimbus CE338: 40th Anniversary Edition- Build #6486. 
Toad: 2021 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk

 "I know something about a lot of things..a lot about something's..and everything about nothing "

Re: Spartan Chassis and DEF problems

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Gary B –
What year did DEF start to appear on Foretravel Coaches? Particulate filters as well were there two points of entry? I am thinking somewhere around 2008 or 2009? some RVs are different that others depending on chassis build.

I believe 2010 
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: Spartan Chassis and DEF problems

Reply #11 –
The EPA requirement for DEF/Selective Catalytic Reduction kicked in 2010.
I remember when catalytic converter were a new thing.  Now you hardly ever hear of a problem. Then, we were given a grace period for the lead in our bulk storage tanks to leach out.  Not to mention the problems with analog electronic engine controls.

6 Answers About Diesel Exhaust Fluid [2021]
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Spartan Chassis and DEF problems

Reply #12 –

Hmm, Some times things fall off driving down the road ;D, If they cause to many problems.. I've never had a problems getting someone to work on a modified system as long as they don't have to do any emission's modifications to change the part.
Mike & Donna Mariana + Angel & Rusty
2003 U295 3620
Build# 6118
2021 Jeep Wrangler 392

Re: Spartan Chassis and DEF problems

Reply #13 –
Quote from: zmpm01 –
Hmm, Some times things fall off driving down the road ;D, If they cause to many problems.. I've never had a problems getting someone to work on a modified system as long as they don't have to do any emission's modifications to change the part.
From removing door safety mechanisms on industrial machinery, to learning how to quickly and properly remove 1970s emission devices, I'm the poster child for bad behaviour.  But just like solid state engine controls eventually made ICE engines more fuel efficient and more powerful, Diesel Exhaust Fluid and Selective Catalytic Reduction make the world a more pleasant place in which to live.  Eventually the reliability issues will be resolved, the legislative issues are being addresses so you won't be stranded on the side of the road for allowing your DEF tank to run dry, or more likely the engine management computer to believe your full tank is empty.
For the time being all you can do is learn the most common failure points and how to rectify those failures, both temporarily and until the next time they fail.  Nothing is permanent.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.
 

Re: Spartan Chassis and DEF problems

Reply #14 –
I don't believe all the item's associated with emission controls are best for thing for the environment. Some of it is political and makes politicians feel good like there doing something useful!

I would like to see all things taken into consideration and studied before mandating any emission laws. Like how many emissions are created by creating the requirement and how does it adversely effect the environment by production, transportation, packaging, Increased consumption of fuel and disposal of all by products.

Don't get me wrong I'm all for taking care of the planet and I am a hunter, fisherman and love the outdoors and want it to be there for the next generations to come, but want things to be done on a true evaluation of all the consequence's associated with the law changes not what happens to the pockets of the Corporations and Politicians.
Mike & Donna Mariana + Angel & Rusty
2003 U295 3620
Build# 6118
2021 Jeep Wrangler 392