Engine won’t start

Topic: Engine won’t start (Read 731 times) previous topic - next topic

Engine won’t start

February 18, 2023, 12:30:28 pm

Maybe you can help me with this. We're down in Alabama visiting my daughter and her family. Went to take the motorhome to wash it. Even with boost on the engine won't start. If I run just on the engine batteries the whole dash is dead and nothing but I have 12.9 V in the engine batteries. And 13.4 on the motorhome batteries but even though I hit boost you can hear just a solenoid clicking and my speedometer is just bouncing all over. I'm kind of at my wits end here there's got to be a solenoid or a bad ground that's not letting the starter solenoid and dash get full .

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #1 – February 18, 2023, 12:32:57 pm

Start by verifying that all connections at the batteries are clean and tight.

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #2 – February 18, 2023, 12:34:48 pm

Yes they are. I just put new batteries, engine and coach in and they're in good shape.

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #3 – February 18, 2023, 12:43:05 pm

Linda and Randy,

No start situations are not uncommon, so no need to panic. See the post linked below for a list of the usual suspects:

Starting trouble. Solenoid? Isolator? Something else?

If you need help locating any items on the list, let us know. Hopefully you have a multimeter, and are comfortable using it for electrical trouble shooting.

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #4 – February 18, 2023, 12:48:52 pm

Thank you very much guys. I'll try everything that I was just reading.You know the bad thing about this is ,I farm for 50 years and never had this trouble with anything trucks, tractors, anything. I'll keep trying. It's very nice to have somebody that you can talk to about your problems that has experienced most of them. Thank you again I'll get back to you if I get it started. Just a question what does the isolator do?

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #5 – February 18, 2023, 12:51:19 pm

Below the alternator on the frame you have a bunch of ground cables,you have to be on the ground looking up,they are fastened with a bolt,take those apart and clean and go from there,are you the same one asking on facebook,much better help here.

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #6 – February 18, 2023, 01:00:06 pm

If you need help finding the ignition solenoid on your coach, look behind the removable panel in front of the copilot seat. Should see a whole bunch of circuit breakers, and down near the bottom of the board either one or possibly two black solenoids. (If two then they share the ignition solenoid duties) See post linked below for photos:

Need dash solenoid I'd please

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #7 – February 18, 2023, 01:21:42 pm

Quote from: LRK – February 18, 2023, 12:48:52 pm

Just a question what does the isolator do?

The battery isolator connects your engine alternator to the two battery banks in your coach. It has nothing to do with your "no-start" problem. I would save this question for another time in another thread. OR, you can search the Forum for MANY threads going into great detail about how isolators work and why they are used on our Foretravel coaches.

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #8 – February 18, 2023, 03:14:05 pm

Did you check the voltage when you are trying to start the engine.

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #9 – February 18, 2023, 04:16:57 pm

Just checked the solenoid on passenger side and I'm only getting 4.5 V to one side and nothing on the other. I'm really starting to think I have a bad ground somewhere. Checked around for a blue sea 9012 solenoid. Got the shock of my life $311.

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #10 – February 18, 2023, 05:09:23 pm

These attached steps for your ooach are needed for successful engine start, but any and all can be bypassed.

Acts like you start battery bank is discharged.

Activating Aux Start Relay on inverter panel by putting 12v on little terminal or jumping the large terminals bypass all but the last two steps.

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #11 – February 18, 2023, 05:25:45 pm

Quote from: LRK – February 18, 2023, 04:16:57 pm

Just checked the solenoid on passenger side and I'm only getting 4.5 V to one side and nothing on the other.
Checked around for a blue sea 9012 solenoid. Got the shock of my life $311.

You should always see a full 12+ volts at one of the large posts on the ignition solenoid. If you don't then find out why before proceeding furthur down the trouble shooting path.

If you DO decide to replace the ignition solenoid (on electric panel in front of passenger seat) a Cole Hersee 24213 will work fine and save you a few bucks.

Cole Hersee 24213 12V 200A Continuous Solenoid

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #12 – February 18, 2023, 09:01:18 pm

More information on the troubleshooting today. When the ignition switch is turned ON with the Boost switch OFF the dash is dead and the engine will not crank when attempted. 4.5V is measured at the ignition solenoid. We checked voltage at various points on the circuit from the ignition switch to the battery and measured 4.5v at the 90A circuit breaker, boost solenoid and starter when referenced to chassis ground. However, when referenced directly to the negative terminal of the engine batteries with a long test lead we measured full battery voltage 12.9V at all points including the ignition solenoid. Is the most likely culprit the engine battery connection to ground or something else? We took a quick look at the grounding points on the engine block and back frame crossmember, they look old but not obviously corroded. Will plan to clean them up tomorrow.

One other note, if the Boost is switched ON with the ignition switch ON then the dash comes alive and the speedometer gives erratic indications. The engine will struggle to turn over and will not start. The boost solenoid did look corroded when we were checking voltages back there. Coach batteries are fully charged as best as we can tell.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #13 – February 18, 2023, 09:59:13 pm

I think you are on the right track looking at possible grounding issues. In the past there have been numerous Forum threads discussing "hard starting" and "slow cranking" problems. In many cases the culprit was found to be a bad ground cable or a dirty/loose/weak ground cable connection. In a number of cases the coach owner installed a new additional heavy gauge ground cable from the starting batteries to a nearby frame member. This modification seemed to solve some of the problems. Might be worth a try if you don't discover any other obvious sign of trouble in the existing cables and connectors.

You can search the Forum for the term "engine battery ground cable" to find some of the old posts on this subject.

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #14 – February 18, 2023, 10:06:05 pm

Stepping back a few to ask some more questions...

1- Do you have a multimeter? Guessing you do since you have given voltage but other tools do this too
2- If you do, disconnect both engine batteries so they are stand alone and measure the volts, what are they?
3- Do you have a jump box or jumper cables with a vehicle that can jump? If so, does it start when jumped?
4- How old are the starter batteries? Are they AGM or liquid? If the latter, pop the top and check the water level
5- You said the terminals are ok as well as the chassis ground, but I would recommend getting a wire brush and/or battery terminal cleaner to ensure the contacts are clean. Do this for the batteries, chassis ground and starter cables.

Report back and hope you get it solved quickly.

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #15 – February 18, 2023, 10:11:50 pm

Based on the voltage checks that you've made, the problem is with your chassis battery negative connection to chassis ground.
Find this cable and remove, clean and reconnect.

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #16 – February 19, 2023, 04:52:45 am

Reply number 5,told him where they are on mine,sounds like you have the single solnoid,ours has the 2 large relays,I would
get the Cole Hearse coming and change it,if it does not help then you have a spare,you have a couple of the same type near the isolator.

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #17 – February 19, 2023, 11:08:31 am

An old voltmeter quick test is to put one lead on battery center terminal and other lead on battery cable terminal or any other place. Voltage should be zero as both leads are on the same positive or negative circuit. Any voltage ready shows resistance between the test meter leads.

This is not a test where one meter is on pos and other on neg. Both leads are on the same pos or both on same neg.

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #18 – February 19, 2023, 03:50:57 pm

Quote from: LRK – February 18, 2023, 12:30:28 pm

I'm kind of at my wits end here there's got to be a solenoid or a bad ground that's not letting the starter solenoid and dash get full

I have the same problem. I have traced the braided ground strap from the dash into the conduit duct that transits the propane bay, I cannot find where it terminates.

Does anyone know where the braided ground strap and/or the house battery negative cable terminates?

Thx Tim

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #19 – February 19, 2023, 05:26:41 pm

Quote from: TGordon – February 19, 2023, 03:50:57 pm

Does anyone know where the braided ground strap and/or the house battery negative cable terminates?

Tim,

On your age coach it should be terminated on the 12VDC breaker panel in the basement behind the fiberglass cover. I don't have a pic. right handy to post.

Mike

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #20 – February 19, 2023, 06:03:50 pm

Quote from: Pamela & Mike – February 19, 2023, 05:26:41 pm

I don't have a pic handy to post.

Here you go Mike. In the photo of the panel you can see the braided steel strap running down left side under the nylon ties to a grounding bolt bottom left corner. Photo thanx to jor.

12 Volt Panel

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #21 – February 19, 2023, 06:28:33 pm

Quote from: Pamela & Mike – February 19, 2023, 05:26:41 pm

Tim,

On your age coach it should be terminated on the 12VDC breaker panel in the basement behind the fiberglass cover. I don't have a pic. right handy to post.

Mike

I found the negative house battery terminate there. I have not found the braided wire dash ground.
Thanks for your help.
Tim

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #22 – February 19, 2023, 07:31:38 pm

Thank you to everybody for your advice on how to fix this problem. This morning I took all the ground cables off to clean them up and found the ones by the alternator. Cleaned them up, clean the battery terminals just to make sure , and fired her up. Can't really tell which one was causing problem but it's fixed. But I think the ones in front of the alternator was the problem? Again, thank you very much for everybody's help and advice. This truly is the best group of people I've ever been associated with.

Re: Engine won’t start

Reply #23 – February 20, 2023, 01:29:13 pm

Quote from: LRK – February 19, 2023, 07:31:38 pm

This morning I took all the ground cables off to clean them up and found the ones by the alternator. Cleaned them up, clean the battery terminals just to make sure , and fired her up. Can't really tell which one was causing problem but it's fixed.

"We" check every connection before and after repair because "we" want to know if we've really fixed the problem.

FWIW My Studebaker project has the car alarm sounding the horn at random times day or night. The first problem is that the red car doesn't have an alarm system. So next up is tracing the signal wire from one end to the other looking for the short to ground.

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