Steering looseness

Topic: Steering looseness (Read 970 times) previous topic - next topic

Steering looseness

August 25, 2023, 10:25:55 pm

My 98 U320 steering head (redhead??) does not leak but there is a noticeable wander in the steering. I have to compensate for over and under steer. I do not have too many issues with it but my wife who is just learning to drive the coach does. She over compensates and does not enjoy driving the coach.
What is the issue and fix? Would a rebuild ( or new) red head be the issue. Maybe should I ask if there is a chance we can get the steering back to "new"
And if anyone know the cost that would be great. Being in Canada I am not sure if anyone does that work or can replace the stuff needed

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #1 – August 25, 2023, 11:27:56 pm

Tire pressure correct both front and rear, toe set correct IIRC 1/8 to 1/4 toed in, other worn steering parts (tie rod ends, drag link ends, worn u joints between the steering wheel and steering box, loose wheel bearings? I doubt your steering box is the issue. Have a helper wiggle the steering wheel slightly while you look at the steering linkage for any looseness. It may just b a learning curve a lot of new drivers will tend to over steer. If your problem continues any heavy truck alignment shop should be able find your problem.

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #2 – August 25, 2023, 11:58:40 pm

Correct toe in can make a big difference in a vehicle wandering.

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #3 – August 26, 2023, 12:20:25 am

I have never found someone to do the math, but I think the steering geometry can make driving an RV uncomfortable for a novice driver. In a car, we sit well behind the front wheels, and are used to that. In a DP, we are on top of, or even in front of the wheels. I think that makes the steering sensation a lot different.

When I try to drive the DP like a car, I am constantly correcting the steering to feel like I am staying straight and centered in the lane. When I look further ahead, but still be aware of closer things with my peripheral vision, my steering reactions calm down, I correct a lot less, and I am more comfortable.

Can someone here explain this better, or even quantify it?

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #4 – August 26, 2023, 03:29:37 am

When I first got my coach years ago I was disappointed in that I had to constantly and actively steer the coach all the time. It was real work. I eventually took it to MOT and had a thorough alignment job done. The old experienced alignment guy (long since retired) adjusted the toe-in and increased the caster up to the max tolerance. After that and ever since it has driven like a Cadillac. On a straight road with no crosswind it tracks like it is on rails, no work at all.

Richard

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #5 – August 26, 2023, 05:26:00 am

Check all the components mentioned above,you can also crawl under and check the drag link etc for play,when is the last time the
hyd. oil and filters were changed and do you still have the original shocks.

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #6 – August 26, 2023, 08:20:13 am

Thanks for posting this. It is one of the questions I had as well. I was going to do what was suggested above to verify if I had an issue. But it appears a certain amount of "old car" feel (there is those of you out there that know what I mean

) will be there since the design is basically the same. Subscribed
Jeff

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #7 – August 26, 2023, 08:47:59 am

Quote from: oldmattb – August 26, 2023, 12:20:25 am

When I try to drive the DP like a car, I am constantly correcting the steering to feel like I am staying straight and centered in the lane. When I look further ahead, but still be aware of closer things with my peripheral vision, my steering reactions calm down, I correct a lot less, and I am more comfortable.

Can someone here explain this better, or even quantify it?

oldmattb, you're experiencing a combination of two things: the pendulum effect and pilot induced oscillations. Anything you throw, the heavy part ends up going first and you are driving a diesel pusher. And your steering inputs keep feeding the pendulum. The cure? Give up a little control and stop steering so much. Pay attention to the road bed and allow our wheels to find the tracks worn into the road bed by all of those who came before you. All you need for a steering input is a slight correction for road bed camber, little more that keeping the steering wheel on the uphill side of the free play.

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #8 – August 26, 2023, 10:29:18 am

Quote from: Peter – August 25, 2023, 10:25:55 pm

My 98 U320 steering head (redhead??) does not leak but there is a noticeable wander in the steering.

Peter,

Have you identified the (may be more than one) source of play in the steering. Easy to do with a helper.

Helper in driver's seat. Engine off. Slowly move steering wheel back and forth 20 or so degrees either side of center while you look under the front of the coach for sources of play.

Start at the steering column as it comes down into the steering box. Then steering box, then drag link and tie rod ends.

BTW, you have a Sheppard M100 steering box. Red-Head Steering Gears in Washington state blueprints these boxes to minimize play in the box itself.

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #9 – August 26, 2023, 11:41:21 am

Quote from: Old Toolmaker – August 26, 2023, 08:47:59 am

oldmattb, you're experiencing a combination of two things: the pendulum effect and pilot induced oscillations. Anything you throw, the heavy part ends up going first and you are driving a diesel pusher. And your steering inputs keep feeding the pendulum. The cure? Give up a little control and stop steering so much. Pay attention to the road bed and allow our wheels to find the tracks worn into the road bed by all of those who came before you. All you need for a steering input is a slight correction for road bed camber, little more that keeping the steering wheel on the uphill side of the free play.

Thanks for providing the phrases for what I have experienced. On three of the four motor homes we have owned, I thought there were steering issues. I found that if I watched the road ten car lengths ahead instead of three the problem went away! Of course the area near me is still in vision, just not focused on.

If the problem disappears based on where I look, that pretty much indicates that the problem is ME!

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #10 – August 26, 2023, 01:03:40 pm

Thanks everyone for the responses.
I am "glad" to know that I am not the only one with these issues. I will start with the basics and work my way forward, checking all the parts in order from the steering wheel down. I am pretty sure also the coach needs a wheel alignment and if I can not pin point the issues, perhaps the alignment personnel can locate the issues.
Once I pin point the issue and the cure I will reach out on the forum with results.
Peter

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #11 – August 26, 2023, 01:26:51 pm

Try and check the components first and then get the alignment,you may replace a part or 2 and not need a alignment.

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #12 – August 26, 2023, 01:29:55 pm

The other thing to check with system aired up and in travel mode is RIDE HEIGHT.

This certainly needs to be done as the very first step of aligning the coach.

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #13 – August 26, 2023, 03:17:54 pm

wolfe10,
I did not know about the ride height adjustment requirement PRIOR to having the alignment.
Thanks!

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #14 – August 26, 2023, 05:54:59 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – August 26, 2023, 01:29:55 pm

The other thing to check with system aired up and in travel mode is RIDE HEIGHT.

This certainly needs to be done as the very first step of aligning the coach.

I've been wanting to do this for months and can never find that perfect level ground to do it. How level does the rig need to be to check the ride height?

As far as Peter's issue, I adjusted the alignment myself for more toe in when I noticed loose steering. I felt like I was constantly adjusting the steering and it was exhausting. A small adjustment did help but still feel it could be better. Now my problem is that I adjusted it without removing the steering arm (forgot what it's called at the moment) and now my steering wheel is not straight. I imagine proper adjustment may include removal of the crown nut on the tie rod but haven't looked into it enough.

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #15 – August 26, 2023, 06:23:08 pm

First you must drive the coach to where the wheels are straight. Then loosen the drag link bolts on each end of the drag link then turn the drag link until the steering wheel is centered. I just remembered the clocking of the steering wheel when driving on a flat road and then when at home put the steering wheel at the same clocking and loosened the drag link and turned it until the wheel was centered.

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #16 – August 27, 2023, 12:39:58 am

Quote from: wolfe10 – August 26, 2023, 01:29:55 pm

The other thing to check with system aired up and in travel mode is RIDE HEIGHT.

This certainly needs to be done as the very first step of aligning the coach.

Yes that's a thing. While at Foretravel i did have them do an alignment and ask them to check the ride height all the way around. Turns out it was off some. Drivers rear was low so it was kind of pendulum effect between the left front and right rear. They said passing semi trucks should not affect it as much any more. They were right.

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #17 – August 28, 2023, 10:02:30 am

Bob if you don't mind what was the cost of the alignment and leveling at FT? I'll be there in two weeks and I see they are having a sale with 10% off the alignment and I'm considering having it done. It sounds like you can tell there is an improvement.
Thanks...
Tyson

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #18 – August 28, 2023, 05:56:36 pm

Tyson. Don't remember the cost of alignment but the ride height thing was an hourly cost. I know there was two technicians doing it. The changes they were making to the HWH system I would not attempt myself. Plan on a coach buck, probably cheaper though.

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #19 – August 28, 2023, 06:03:08 pm

Setting ride height as to do with adjusting the 3 links to the ride height valves.

HWH leveling/travel mode is completely different and can certainly get more complicated.

Re: Steering looseness

Reply #20 – September 03, 2023, 11:07:17 am

Peter my coach used to wander a bit when I first started driving it. The first thing I did was to replace all eight shocks with the new koni fsds. That seems to help a lot with the up and down and a little bit with the side to side. Just coming out of the paint booth in Mexico we noticed that the shepherd started leaking quite a bit. Couple weeks later I had a rebuilt redhead and it was installed and it made a huge difference in my steering. Play that I used to have was pretty much gone. I have not had the front end aligned since I purchased it six or seven years ago, and that would probably be my final fine-tuning. The other thing I had done during that time was I replaced all my wheels as it was a lot of wear on the tires.
Most of the time these days I drive with two fingers on the steering wheel with one hand only. Coming through the north entrance of Yellowstone and going up the hill with serpentine turns that I thought was a little too much for my coach and I was sure I was going to go off into a ditch I didn't. The steering was tight and responsive. It gives you a real feeling of confidence when you're driving. 24 years old and still has it.

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