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Topic: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo (Read 1700 times) previous topic - next topic

Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Hi all , had anyone ever removed fuel governer cover on 8.2 ltr , I'm still have weird problems , sometimes IL turn ignition on , and the fuel solenoid won't retract , I've replaced the solenoid with a new one , the old one ,nothing wrong with it , I've replaced brand new 12 gauge wire to ignition switch, and a brand new ground wire direct to chassis , if it doesn't retract the only way it will, is to turn the ignition back off, I then put my accelerator pedal to the floor, turn the ignition back on and I hear the solenoid click and retract then I take foot off accelerator pedal and it starts and stays running perfectly until I switch off ignition  I just can't work out why i have to do that for the solenoid to retract, the other day I came up here ,lifted up the bed and turned ignition on and it behaved normally , clicked straight away , so the only thing I can think of is maybe I have a problem inside the fuel governer itself , Could something in the governer  be preventing the solenoid from retracting, when I fitted the new solenoid I made sure that it was powered on and retracted before I fitted it ,I mean it doesn't actually connect to anything once it's in position, so it looks like I'm gonna have to at some point remove the fuel governer cover and try and see what could be happening, any info on this one would be great  thanks    kev

Re: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Reply #1 –
Have you checked voltage at the solenoid when this failure occurs? That is a pretty long run from chassis battery to ignition switch, through the ignition switch and back to the engine.

If not close to chassis battery voltage, an inexpensive and easy fix is to use a RELAY with the ignition switch used to close the relay and a direct from chassis battery wire (with fuse at the battery) providing the "power" to operate the solenoid. For the relay, bigger is better  (unlike fuses where they should be sized to protect the wire gauge).

Re: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Reply #2 –
Quote from: kevo0000 –
...if it doesn't retract the only way it will, is to turn the ignition back off, I then put my accelerator pedal to the floor, turn the ignition back on and I hear the solenoid click and retract then I take foot off accelerator pedal and it starts and stays running perfectly until I switch off ignition...
What kind of throttle on your coach?  Our 1993 GV has the air throttle.  If you have air throttle then I can't imagine how the accelerator pedal position has anything to do with the fuel cutoff solenoid.

Re: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
What kind of throttle on your coach?  Our 1993 GV has the air throttle.  If you have air throttle then I can't imagine how the accelerator pedal position has anything to do with the fuel cutoff solenoid.
Thanks chuck for getting back to me ,I have a cable throttle ,  I know it's the weirdest thing that's ever happened , it's totally thrown me , I've had this intermittent problem for probably 3 years , when the problem occurs and it doesn't retract ,it's almost like something is preventing it from retracting , then what happens the solenoid gets hot , then it doesn't matter what I do it won't work until it cools down , sometimes I go up there after maybe a couple of days turn the ignition on, and it fires up straight away and runs fine ,I can switch it off and try again and it won't start , I thought it was the wiring originally ,so did all that and it still kept doing it at random , ,so I thought got to be faulty solenoid , so I replaced with new , the new solenoid when it arrived ,I tested it before I fitted it on a separate battery ,totally isolated from vehicle just to make sure it was ok , worked fine , anyway when I removed the old solenoid ,I decided to test that on the same external battery and it worked fine also , so I have kept that as a spare  now just in case , I only discovered quite recently by accident the trick of pressing throttle to floor and when it clicked ,I thought how can this be, but it works, strange I know it's not something that's going away either , random intermittent , whatever you call it no it it's really getting to me cause I can't see any logical reason why this is doing this , it's almost like the rack lever or arm whatever you call it is sticking to the end of the solenoid rod and preventing it from retracting , but by hitting the pedal to the floor it's then separated from the solenoid, enabling the rod to retract all the way back enabling it to start fine , it really is a mystery , I want to take the cover off the governer to see what's going on ,but am a bit nervous about doing  that just in case things fall out of it , is it that simple just undo the nuts and it lifts up , I don't know not sure , I keep having a look through the manual , and sounds simple but would rather know someone that has done this job  before I do it myself , maybe IL take it off and find nothing ,that would be worse ,maybe I have a lever inside every now and again that could be jamming the solenoid and preventing from going back , the solenoid rod is not physically attached to anything ,it just goes into a hole with 2 nuts to secure it,
              Kev

Re: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Reply #4 –
Well, OK, since your throttle pedal is mechanically linked to the engine, then I suppose there could be some interaction between it and the fuel solenoid.  How that would work...I have no idea.

You have a different throttle, different engine, and messing with the "fuel governor" is way above my pay grade.  Hopefully, someone on the Forum will see your post and offer some insight.

Good Luck!

Re: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Reply #5 –
Hya chuck I've been searching on utube and found this video doesn't look that difficult a job, if you or anyone watching this you will get to a point where he has the governer cover off , I'm gonna watch it a few times but after watching this I feel quite confident about removing that cover ,it looks like it will come off without removing the cable , there's other videos I found all about Detroit , I'd like to be able to contact this bloke who did this video but haven't got a clue how to do it I'm not that great with computers ,it takes me ages to find stuff ,I get there in the end though ,IL forward the screen shot to the link ,I think it's just after half way in the video that he has the cover off  ,cheers for your help maybe like you said some body might know of my problem , I'm also a member of the 8.2 ltr club on face book ,there maybe someone on there that may be able to help ,

Re: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Reply #6 –
Quote from: kevo0000 –
Hya chuck I've been searching on utube and found this video doesn't look that difficult a job, if you or anyone watching this you will get to a point where he has the governer cover off , I'm gonna watch it a few times but after watching this I feel quite confident about removing that cover ,it looks like it will come off without removing the cable , there's other videos I found all about Detroit , I'd like to be able to contact this bloke who did this video but haven't got a clue how to do it I'm not that great with computers ,it takes me ages to find stuff ,I get there in the end though ,IL forward the screen shot to the link ,I think it's just after half way in the video that he has the cover off  ,cheers for your help maybe like you said some body might know of my problem , I'm also a member of the 8.2 ltr club on face book ,there maybe someone on there that may be able to help ,
Hya chuck , I would like to be able to contact this chap that's doing this video ,he really seems to know what he is talking about I just can't seem to find a way to contact him directly  , the best bit of this utube video ,is he actually shows the solenoid retracting with the cover off, but looking at that video you can see that the solenoid rod just goes back in when powered up and obviously it's not connected directly to the fuel rack lever ,it just pushes against it , IL watch it a few more times then I'm gonna bite the bullet and remove the cover , I will get in touch with Detroit pro power and order a new gasket he is expensive for parts ,would you know of any decent  suppliers I'm sure they can't be the only company that sells this sort of stuff  ?  Thanks kev

Re: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Reply #7 –
Kev,

I tried typing in the address of the video in the screen shot you posted.  It comes back as "video no longer available".

(https://youtube.com/watch?v=HfKFChz_blo&si=71AuNUDnD12KsUZx)

If the video you saw doesn't have some kind of contact info in the credits and comments section below the video, then I don't know any other way to contact the person who posted it.

I can't help with stateside suppliers of diesel parts.  I have no favorite suppliers.  If I need to buy something for our Cummins engine, I simply do a Google search and pick one of the places from the list of hits...usually the one with cheapest price (including shipping).  All I can suggest is that you do the same thing.

Sorry I can't be more help.

Re: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Reply #8 –
Oh well chuck ,no worries ,I have it stored in my face book messenger ,if you are on Facebook I could friend request and send it that way ,ive watched it at least 3 times today ,maybe it's because I subscribed to the channel ages ago and it's not taking any new ones ,if I can send it that way ,you may be able to post it on the forum, the only other way maybe to go onto www.scienceofdiagnostics, maybe youl find it , il see if i

Re: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Reply #9 –
Quote from: kevo0000 –
Oh well chuck ,no worries ,I have it stored in my face book messenger ,if you are on Facebook I could friend request and send it that way ,ive watched it at least 3 times today ,maybe it's because I subscribed to the channel ages ago and it's not taking any new ones ,if I can send it that way ,you may be able to post it on the forum, the only other way maybe to go onto www.scienceofdiagnostics, maybe youl find it , il see if i
Hi chuck try this route , just go on utube and enter Detroit diesel power and then start to scroll down a bit until you seen that same screen as I sent you , thanks kev

Re: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Reply #10 –
OK, here is the youtube video that Kev is talking about.  They show the top of the fuel governor being removed and the parts inside.  If this helps anybody on the Forum understand what Kev's problem is, or how to troubleshoot, please speak up.

At about 12 minutes and 30 seconds into the video, they tear into the governor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfKFChz_bIo

Kev:  The people who put out that video also have a facebook page.  You may find contact info there?

https://www.facebook.com/scienceofdiagnostics/

Re: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
OK, here is the youtube video that Kev is talking about.  They show the top of the fuel governor being removed and the parts inside.  If this helps anybody on the Forum understand what Kev's problem is, or how to troubleshoot, please speak up.

At about 7 minutes and 45 seconds into the video, they tear into the governor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfKFChz_bIo

Kev:  The people who put out that video also have a facebook page.  You may find contact info there?

https://www.facebook.com/scienceofdiagnostics/
Ah wonderful chuck mutch appreciated, il try and follow on face book and see if I can contact the chap that uploaded that video, it does look fairly straight forward to remove that cover , I have just emailed diesel pro power to order a new cover gasket ready to do the job, sometime today or tomorrow  I'm gonna remove it, I'm sure it needs to come off, even though its got the shut down solenoid on it, there is a manual shut down rod that doesn't turn either way, I'm wondering if that maybe linked to my problem, if I find anything out myself il post and when I do get the cover off, il do some videos myself of the job that I can put up on utube and il send the link to it,

Re: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
OK, here is the youtube video that Kev is talking about.  They show the top of the fuel governor being removed and the parts inside.  If this helps anybody on the Forum understand what Kev's problem is, or how to troubleshoot, please speak up.

At about 7 minutes and 45 seconds into the video, they tear into the governor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfKFChz_bIo

Kev:  The people who put out that video also have a facebook page.  You may find contact info there?

https://www.facebook.com/scienceofdiagnostics/
Ah wonderful chuck mutch appreciated, il try and follow on face book and see if I can contact the chap that uploaded that video, it does look fairly straight forward to remove that cover , I have just emailed diesel pro power to order a new cover gasket ready to do the job, sometime today or tomorrow  I'm gonna remove it, I'm sure it needs to come off, even though its got the shut down solenoid on it, there is a manual shut down rod that doesn't turn either way, I'm wondering if that maybe linked to my problem, if I find anything out myself il post and when I do get the cover off, il do some videos myself of the job that I can put up on utube and il send the link to it,
Quote from: wolfe10 –
Have you checked voltage at the solenoid when this failure occurs? That is a pretty long run from chassis battery to ignition switch, through the ignition switch and back to the engine.

If not close to chassis battery voltage, an inexpensive and easy fix is to use a RELAY with the ignition switch used to close the relay and a direct from chassis battery wire (with fuse at the battery) providing the "power" to operate the solenoid. For the relay, bigger is better  (unlike fuses where they should be sized to protect the wire gauge).
Quote from: wolfe10 –
Have you checked voltage at the solenoid when this failure occurs? That is a pretty long run from chassis battery to ignition switch, through the ignition switch and back to the engine.

If not close to chassis battery voltage, an inexpensive and easy fix is to use a RELAY with the ignition switch used to close the relay and a direct from chassis battery wire (with fuse at the battery) providing the "power" to operate the solenoid. For the relay, bigger is better  (unlike fuses where they should be sized to protect the wire gauge).
Ah I never thought of that, that's one thing to try, I did use 12 gauge wire from the ignition switch to the solenoid, I thought that was how the original wiring was from switch to solenoid but maybe there is a solenoid already in place and I have bypassed it without thinking, the wires that originally went to the solenoid were very thin though, but the only thing I'm thinking why am I able to sometimes just turn switch on and off at the key repeatedly and hear the solenoid clicking and retracting each time I do it , and then all of a sudden it doesn't do it, but you have got me thinking now Brett, what amp relay would you suggest I fit to this new wire feed that I have put in direct, and could then take power from battery side of battery isolator for the heavy duty power, I think I understand what your saying, the ammount  of voltage drop from ign switch to the solenoid, so basically I would be using the new wire I've fitted solely as the switch wire, I think I've got it, I could have the relay switch quite close to the shutdown solenoid , good idea, il try that first before I think about removing the governer cover,  but will still try to find more info from this guy at science of diagnostics, chuck has managed to put the link up for me, and il have a look at Facebook now for any more, thanks Brett for your input, can't wait to try the relay  kev

Re: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Reply #13 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
Have you checked voltage at the solenoid when this failure occurs? That is a pretty long run from chassis battery to ignition switch, through the ignition switch and back to the engine.

If not close to chassis battery voltage, an inexpensive and easy fix is to use a RELAY with the ignition switch used to close the relay and a direct from chassis battery wire (with fuse at the battery) providing the "power" to operate the solenoid. For the relay, bigger is better  (unlike fuses where they should be sized to protect the wire gauge).
Hi Brett, do you think that this relay will do the job it's a 30 amp relay, I'm gonna make a start in a minute, it could be all my problem solved, fingers crossed

Re: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Reply #14 –
Quote from: kevo0000 –
Hi Brett, do you think that this relay will do the job it's a 30 amp relay, I'm gonna make a start in a minute, it could be all my problem solved, fingers crossed
Hya Brett your a genius, so far so good, I did as you suggested and wired up the relay, I've took the live feed from the vehicle battery terminal which is connected to the isolater, I've connected that wire to the relay with an inline 30 amp fuse, it was very straight forward I got a relay wiring diagram off Google, and first turn of the key the solenoid retracted, I did it several times in a row il do it again later, but I'm feeling more confident now that it will work OK, something as simple as that has thrown me into thinking I had a problem inside the governer itself, it still doesn't explain why I was able to retract the solenoid when I pushed my foot on the accelerator first, that's what made me think I had a greater problem ha ha, anyway thanks Brett, chick and everyone else for their input, I found another very interesting video from science of diagnostics, how to do what they call a relative compression test, but he had a computer and yet this engine has no ecu control or nothing, but il do a screenshot of it and send it to you chuck and you could put that up for me too please thanks  kev

Re: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
OK, here is the youtube video that Kev is talking about.  They show the top of the fuel governor being removed and the parts inside.  If this helps anybody on the Forum understand what Kev's problem is, or how to troubleshoot, please speak up.

At about 12 minutes and 30 seconds into the video, they tear into the governor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfKFChz_bIo

Kev:  The people who put out that video also have a facebook page.  You may find contact info there?

https://www.facebook.com/scienceofdiagnostics/
Here is the other interesting video I found, if you could put up that link please as I struggle to do that thanks kev

Re: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Reply #16 –
Yes, a 30 amp relay is fine.

But the fuse should be sized to protect the wiring.  You can look up what amp rating that is using the smallest gauge wire between the fuse and the fuel shutoff solenoid.  It MAY be 30, it may be smaller. 

Another way of looking at it is to determine the amp draw needed to pull in and then maintain fuel shutoff function and use a fuse sized at, say 125% of that draw.  Again assuming that it does not exceed what you need to protect the wiring.

Re: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
Sure, here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy7CDzAmnHM
Thanks a lot chuck, well interesting videos very well explained don't you think. I have found them on face book, there doesn't seem to be an option to follow or friend request and there hasn't been mutch activity from for a few years, so maybe they are not doing  anymore videos, but hope someone may make use of these videos, I certainly enjoy watching stuff like that , always learning something new I am,
 Thanks kev
 

Re: Re removing fuel governer cover on my 1990 grand villa with 8.2 ltr turbo

Reply #19 –
Quote from: kevo0000 –
Thanks a lot chuck, well interesting videos very well explained don't you think. I have found them on face book, there doesn't seem to be an option to follow or friend request and there hasn't been mutch activity from for a few years, so maybe they are not doing  anymore videos, but hope someone may make use of these videos, I certainly enjoy watching stuff like that , always learning something new I am,
 Thanks kev
Well, just come up here and tried and tested solenoid again and everything seems OK, so I think that problem now is finally solved for good, thanks kev