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Another Retarder Problem

Just completed a trip from Georgetown, Texas to Bayfield/Durango and Denver.  On return home yesterday, at the end of our driving day, I noted that my Retarder started activating itself even though the Joy Stick was in the "off" position.  I can shut it off completely with the "Master" Rocker switch, but if the Master is "ON", then I get the feel of retardation and a light in the Master switch, just by taking my foot off the accelerator pedal.  Feels like a normal "first click" "position 1" retard, but I have verified several times that this happens with the Joy Stick "off".

I do not have any codes showing in the transmission.

Anybody have experience with this??

I will be talking to an Allison Service facility tomorrow.
Dan Spoor;  FTV 11082
Sold: 2003 34-ft U-270
(Sob!)

Re: Another Retarder Problem

Reply #1 –
Quote
I can shut it off completely with the "Master" Rocker switch, but if the Master is "ON", then I get the feel of retardation and a light in the Master switch, just by taking my foot off the accelerator pedal. 
Feels like a normal "first click" "position 1" retard, but I have verified several times that this happens with the Joy Stick "off".

Dan,
How do you turn the joy stick off with the "Retarder" Rocker switch ON?
Does the rocker switch light up when this happens indicating the retarder is operating at that moment?
I am pretty sure my joy stick is 1 - 6 position and can only turn it off with the rocker switch.
The selected media item is not currently available.Barry BEAM #16014
2003 U320 40' AGDS
Beamalarm, Foretravel technical help and specifications
"Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve"

Re: Another Retarder Problem

Reply #2 –
I've never noticed the retarder rocker switch light go on when I release the throttle and the joy stick is in the most forward position (retarder turned on).  Otherwise, to improve fuel economy, the coach should be driven with the retarder turned off and only turn it on when the retarder is absolutely needed.  Is this correct?
Peter & Beth Martin
No Forrest? What have you done?
MC# 15890 until Dec 2016; FMCA #F329677
Cincinnati, OH

Re: Another Retarder Problem

Reply #3 –
Quote
I've never noticed the retarder rocker switch light go on when I release the throttle and the joy stick is in the most forward position (retarder turned on).

OOps,
After rereading my notes I am mistaken.  :o

Retarder Operation on a Foretravel
Retarder switch on, Joy stick in zero position (fully forward on my coach), let off the power, no retard.

Retarder switch on, Joy stick in any position other than zero, let off the power, the retard to match the Joy stick position comes on.

Retarder switch on, Joy stick in zero position, let off the power and lightly press the brake, 30% retard engaged. Press harder, 66% retard engaged; press even harder, 100% retard engaged.

I believe the light pressure on the brake that provides 2 psi in the chamber calls for the 30%, pressing harder to achieve 7 psi in the chamber results in 66% and pressing to increase to 10+psi results in 100% retard.
The selected media item is not currently available.Barry BEAM #16014
2003 U320 40' AGDS
Beamalarm, Foretravel technical help and specifications
"Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve"

Re: Another Retarder Problem

Reply #4 –
Schew!  :o  That's what I thought.  Thanks, Barry.
Peter & Beth Martin
No Forrest? What have you done?
MC# 15890 until Dec 2016; FMCA #F329677
Cincinnati, OH

Re: Another Retarder Problem

Reply #5 –
Quote
I can shut it off completely with the "Master" Rocker switch, but if the Master is "ON", then I get the feel of retardation and a light in the Master switch, just by taking my foot off the accelerator pedal.  Feels like a normal "first click" "position 1" retard, but I have verified several times that this happens with the Joy Stick "off".

I have this exact same problem.  It happens following a stop and after 3-4 hours of driving.  This was discussed just a little a while back and Russell said that his was corrected this way: "Understandably, it was an intermittent problem, and one that was the hard to pin down with the coach in the shop, rather than on the road.  But after a couple of discussions with Alton, he offered the following:

He said they could "throw parts at it all day long" and eventually get it fixed, but that probably wouldn't be too agreeable a solution for me, given the number of parts that might be involved and the final expense.  He did say that IF... IF there was any one part that he might suggest, it would be the "IPX Master Wiper Controller."

The way Alton explained it to me was this.  This "IPX Master Wiper Controller" is the unit that routs all signals from the dash to their various components.  He said that these units usually last around 5 years, before they show some kind of problem.  The unit cost about $265 dollars, and since I would have spent that much on fuel for a return trip to Nacogdoches, I gambled and had them install the box.  ... and damn if it didn't work!

No more problems with the retarder as it works with the cruise."

I trust Russell won't mind me quoting him.  I haven't addressed mine yet, but i will soon.

Paul
36' 2000 U320
Paul
36' 2000 U320
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit

Re: Another Retarder Problem

Reply #6 –
RE: to improve fuel economy, the coach should be driven with the retarder turned off and only turn it on when the retarder is absolutely needed.  Is this correct?
 
I would say your comment is correct IF improving fuel economy is priority.
 
Some driving situations favor increased safety that may come from leaving joy stick in any position that activates retard when throttle pedal goes to idle position.
Frequent use of retard can be very helpful even when not absolutely needed. Saving brake wear may save more money than increased fuel economy.

Re: Another Retarder Problem

Reply #7 –
Here is a "sort of" update.

I spoke with Gerald, Service Manager at Performance Industrial Power, in Buda TX (512-312-5700).  [This shop used to be in Austin, and some years ago moved to Buda.  This is a fully certified Allison Service Facility, and is the only such in the Greater Austin, TX area]

Gerald speculated on programming, and possibly some sort of connection fault in the joystick assembly.  I will take it in for a computer check/analysis on Wednesday.
Dan Spoor;  FTV 11082
Sold: 2003 34-ft U-270
(Sob!)

Re: Another Retarder Problem

Reply #8 –
Is it possible that the retarder is being turned on by a signal from the brake or brake light switch?
Dick, '03 U320 40' Tag, 2 slides, Coach #6075
Full Timers
2009 Honda CR-V

Re: Another Retarder Problem

Reply #9 –
I think the answer to your question is yes, possible, but not very probable: the service brake pedal was not being applied at the time the problem was first noted, nor in any of the other "test" decelerations performed, and the brake lights are not "on" when not being energized by brake application.  Yes, there could be an electrical fault of some sort, and maybe the Allison folks can find that.  The possibility of the fault being in an electronic routing computer has also been posed.

I haven't driven the Coach since it was put up on Friday, so maybe it cured itself!
Dan Spoor;  FTV 11082
Sold: 2003 34-ft U-270
(Sob!)

Re: Another Retarder Problem

Reply #10 –
Addendum just in case anybody is following this thread:

This morning, I started out to take the Coach to the Buda, TX Allison Store.  This was the first time I had driven the Caoch since I put it into storage with the malfunction.

As you might expect, everything is now completely normal.  So I aborted the trip because I didn't want to drive 1.5 hrs to be told "We can't duplicate the problem".  If it recurs, I will take it in for Dx.
Dan Spoor;  FTV 11082
Sold: 2003 34-ft U-270
(Sob!)

Re: Another Retarder Problem

Reply #11 –
Dan,
I have the exact same problem and it does not show itself until after 3-4 hours of driving and after a rest of an hour, or so, it goes away.  See my reply of August 22 for more info.
Paul
36' 2000 U320
Paul
36' 2000 U320
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit

Re: Another Retarder Problem

Reply #12 –
Thanks, Paul for our interest and input.  I did see your earlier post and Russell's experience.  I plan to hold of until our next trip, a short one to Kerrville (Buckhorn RV Resort) next week (Hill Country Quilters Shop Hop), and then expect to be going to Mother Foretravel in another week or so.

Gerald Petty, the Service Manager at Performance Industrial Power (Allison) in Buda thinks the most likely culprit is in the Joystick.
Dan Spoor;  FTV 11082
Sold: 2003 34-ft U-270
(Sob!)

Re: Another Retarder Problem

Reply #13 –
Dan,
One other thing that I failed to mention in my last post is that my problem never shows up unless we make a rest stop and shut down the engine for some period of time.  When we restart is when we encounter the problem, unless the stop was for at least an hour, then no problem.  That makes me think it is somehow related to heat.  And, of course, it is always fine when we start off for the day.
Paul
36' 2000 U320
Paul
36' 2000 U320
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit

Re: Another Retarder Problem

Reply #14 –
On my 06 Phenix, with the switch on and the joystick forward, the light is ALWAYS on but the retarder does not activate unless I move the joystick.
Gerard Caswell
Eunice, LA
2006 Phenix
2011 GMC Sierra P/U 4x4
 

Re: Another Retarder Problem

Reply #15 –
Thanks, Gerald.  That must be a change in wiring pattern established sometime after 2003 models.  My 2003, 2002, and 1998 were all the same, i.e., "off" on the Joystick is no light and no retard even though the Master Switch would be "On" (FWIW, I almost never turn the Master Switch "Off" unless I specifically want to exercise the Service Brakes).

Mine cured itself by sitting in my storage space for a couple of weeks.  I will take it in to Allison if (and when) it recurs.
Dan Spoor;  FTV 11082
Sold: 2003 34-ft U-270
(Sob!)