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Topic: Voltage (Read 1336 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Voltage

Reply #25
Barry, That is correct, BUT  DISCONNECT wiring from coach before you start this conversion.
 Make sure you do not attempt to power up the coach with this configuration or you will have a *#$&^#((!! or a mess. When you play these non normal games, you best keep a clear head or it will clear your wallet.
Cheers

Re: Voltage

Reply #26
Thanks to Barry for the PDF and Dave for the "disconnect" tip.

We live at 1900 feet and can get snow several times a year. Were without power for a week several years ago. I can pull up to within 5 feet of the house so is easy to bring cable to the 220 plug I installed for my compressor.

Thanks again.
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Voltage

Reply #27
Barry, That is correct, BUT  DISCONNECT wiring from coach before you start this conversion.
 Make sure you do not attempt to power up the coach with this configuration or you will have a *#$&^#((!! or a mess. When you play these non normal games, you best keep a clear head or it will clear your wallet.
Cheers
Dave M,

If you change the wiring per the diagram that Barry presented, don't you just create a 240 VAC split phase system that is the same as what you would normally get when plugged to the 50A pedestal?

Granted, the sensing is probably still based on 120VAC on one leg. My understanding is that the PT is wired as 120VAC to maximize use of the generator's capacity in a situation where the load is likely to be relatively unbalanced between the legs of a split phase system.
J D Stevens
1997 U295 CAI 36' Build #5085
2002 Subaru Outback
Motorcade 16869
Bellville, TX

Re: Voltage

Reply #28
J D,
You may be right, if that is the case, why not convert your generator to the 240 volt system, and at the transfer switch, install an additional manual or electric operated  contactor, where you can back feed the 50 amp line to the house/pedestal. This would make for a simple hookup to the house.
You could leave this setup as a normal convenience.  This of course would only provide 25 amp per leg, half of the 50 amp line, but what ever the genset is rated at.
Thanks
Dave M

Re: Voltage

Reply #29
Thanks to Barry for the PDF and Dave for the "disconnect" tip.

We live at 1900 feet and can get snow several times a year. Were without power for a week several years ago. I can pull up to within 5 feet of the house so is easy to bring cable to the 220 plug I installed for my compressor.

Thanks again.

I had a 50 amp plug installed in my electronic bay run off of the generator. It was originally to hook up to the stick house for power outages. I havn't got around to putting in the transfer switch on the house side yet  :( 
I found another use for it. I can have another coach plug into it if there gen is not working to give them temporary power from my gen.
The selected media item is not currently available.Barry BEAM #16014
2003 U320 40' AGDS
Beamalarm, Foretravel technical help and specifications
"Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve"

Re: Voltage

Reply #30
It looks like the generator will deliver rated current from each leg in a split phase configuration, i.e., 50 amps on each leg from 12KW, 44 amps from 10KW, and 33 amps from 8KW. The 120VAC only configuration is the preferred configuration in most RVs. At 120VAC, the generators would be rated to deliver a total of 100 amps for 12KW, 88 amps from 10KW, and 66 amps from 8KW.

We too have a 240VAC pump in our residential water well. I looked into using the PT-10 in the FT as an auxiliary generator. I decided to leave the PT-10 as is. If we want auxiliary power for the water well, we should put in a stationery generator with a proper transfer switch. So far, we have addressed the issue by keeping the FT near the house and ready for occupancy in case of failure of electricity, air conditioning, water well, etc.

The citation below gives a good explanation of why the preferred configuration for RVs is 120VAC only.

From http://powertech-gen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/OPERATORS-MANUAL-PT-8-10-12.pdf :

"The generator may be connected at the terminal board to deliver 120/240 volts to a 3 wire grounded neutral system, or 120-volts only to a 2 wire distribution system. If any equipment requires 240-volts, then the 120/240-volt connection must be used. If all equipment requires 120-volts then the 120-volt connection is preferred, even if two lines leave the same switch box. The two lines at the inputs to the switch box are both connected to the un-grounded 120-volt lines from the generator. The 120-volt connection enables the Electronic Voltage Regulator (EVR) to hold the voltage very close to the 115 or 120 volts, as initially adjusted, regardless of the power distribution amount the different distribution lines. The 120-volt connection is recommended if the entire electrical load requires only 115 or 120 volts.
Although the 120/240-volt connection may also be used when all loads requires only 110 volts, it should be pointed out that this connection, the 240-volts, is regulated and the lightly loaded phase, or line, will deliver a high line to neutral voltage and the heavily loaded phase will deliver a low line to neutral voltage. The heavily loaded line may have such a low voltage that air conditioning will have more difficulty in starting, and long starting lines may overload generator and trip circuit breakers."
J D Stevens
1997 U295 CAI 36' Build #5085
2002 Subaru Outback
Motorcade 16869
Bellville, TX

Re: Voltage

Reply #31
The problem, as told to me by the maintenance guy, was that the neutral and ground were wired together.  They checked four of the 20 parking spaces in the row and found all four to have been wired as such.  Seems to be the only row affected.
Brian and Jen

Re: Voltage

Reply #32
The problem, as told to me by the maintenance guy, was that the neutral and ground were wired together.  They checked four of the 20 parking spaces in the row and found all four to have been wired as such. 

I wonder how many RVers future damage you and your FT's power line monitor readout just prevented?  ^.^d

Michelle
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Voltage

Reply #33
This post provides additional information to that provided by J. D. Stevens, who got me started with his post.
Thank you Mr Stevens.

THE POWERTECH MANUAL INDICATES:
The generator may be wired at the terminal board to deliver either:
  120/240 volts to a three wire distribution system, or
  120 volts to a two wire distribution system.

INFORMATION ON: 120/240 - three wire distribution with two hots (red & black wires) and one neutral (white wire)
If any equipment requires 240-volts, then the 120/240-volt connection must be used. 
Although the 120/240-volt connection may also be used when all loads require only 120 volts, this is not recommended. 
The Electronic Voltage Regulator (EVR), will hold the voltage very close to 240 volts. When the two hot lines are evenly loaded, they will both be close to 120 volts, however, when the two hots are unevenly loaded, the heavily loaded line will have low voltage (ie 90 volts) while the lightly loaded line will have high voltage (ie 150 volts). The total voltage between the two hots will be regulated to 240 volts, but.....

INFORMATION ON: 120 - two wire distribution system with one hot (red or black) and one neutral (white).
If all equipment requires 120-volts then this is preferred because the two generator hot outputs are shorted together at the generator such that they each provides exactly half of the amperage demanded. This enables the Electronic Voltage Regulator (EVR), to hold the voltage very close to 120 volts on both hots, regardless of the power distribution amoung the different distribution lines. 

WYATT'S RAMBLINGS:
The 120 - two wire seems confusing because the wiring on my Foretravel from the generator to the panel is a three wire distribution with two hots and one neutral. In reality, while there are two hot wires, a red and a black, these wires are shunted (shorted together) at the generator, such that the two hots from the generator each provide exactly the same amperage (perfect balance). Note that the "red hot" and "black hot" wires from the generator to the panel will not carry the same amperage, but will have the same voltage.

It seems that Foretravel has provided the three wire distribution from the generator to the panel such that folks needing 240 volts can just simply rewire at the generator. Unfortunately, Foretravel only provided 50 amp neutral wiring from generator to panel, while 100 amp neutral wiring is required. In a previous post, damage caused by overloaded neutral wiring was eluded to. I now understand why the neutral generator contacts in the automatic tranfer switch, which I replaced with 65 amp manual switches, was discoloured from overheating (this is frightening to me).

The solution recommended in a previous post is to not exceed 50 amps, which means I carry around a 700 pound, 10KWatt generator but can only safely use 6 kilowatts.

I believe, for most folks, a good solution is to run another #6 neutral wire from the generator to the transfer switch and on to the panel after installing a 100 amp transfer switch.

Another solution is to convert the generator output to 120/240 and load balance. Install another power watch voltmeter so you can see the voltage on each hot line. Load balancing could include: run both a/C units not just one, use two electric ceramic heaters with one on each hot, assure that the electric hot water heater is not on the same hot as the microwave. Foretravel has done a reasonable job of load balancing between the two hot lines and I believe this could be preferred to an overloaded neutral line. However, I have no idea how much unbalanced load can be tolerated, ie 10 amps or 30 amps! Does anyone know?

Other solutions, would be to put a fuse in the generator neutral wire, or replace the 10K generator with a lighter 6K generator.

FWIW
Wyatt
96 U320 40 WTFE, build 4943
84 Toyota Supra towd
2015 Jeep Wrangler towd
Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Voltage

Reply #34
You really can't just 'add' another voltage regulator to the other phase. You can sense from one side to the other - but you only have one armature to apply voltage to create the multiple phase output. You have to properly balance loads.
The selected media item is not currently available. Dave Head & Megan Westbrook
Titusville, FL - The Great Outdoors
'98 270 buying this month
Toad is a 2018 F150 XLT

Re: Voltage

Reply #35
I totally agree with you Dave.

I dusted off the old engineering manuals and did some calculating and if my assumptions and calculations are correct, rewiring your Powertech for 240 volts and using circuits on 120 volts is very dangerous and will result in disaster.

If demand at the panel for 120 volts is 20 amps & 30 amps, the voltages will be 145 & 95, which is not useable. If demand for 120 volts is 10 amps & 30 amps or worse yet, 0 amps & 30 amps, well, you just do not want to go there.

I would love to hear from anyone who has successfully rewired their Powertech generator for 240 volts while still using 120 volt circuits, because I do not believe it can be done.
Wyatt
96 U320 40 WTFE, build 4943
84 Toyota Supra towd
2015 Jeep Wrangler towd
Victoria, BC, Canada

 

Re: Voltage

Reply #36
Wyatt,
It can be done, at least it could on my 2000 U320.  However, I didn't do it, Power Tech did it at their Florida facility.  It was a pretty simple change and they had mine changed and a 50 amp outlet installed in less than two hours and that included them going out to pick up the 50 amp outlet.  They called Foretravel first and asked if they had any problem with them making that change and they did not so Power Tech went ahead and did it.  I would suggest that Power Tech is who you need to be talking with.
Paul
36' 2000 U320
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit