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Topic: LED lighting on an older coach, or Thinlite vs MarineBeam (Read 1832 times) previous topic - next topic

LED lighting on an older coach, or Thinlite vs MarineBeam

Greetings everyone,

I've read every thread dealing with LED lighting eagerly, to see what folks were doing. Been researching this for some months. Seems newer coaches have center ceiling mounted fixture and puck style lighting; my old bus is filled with Thinlite flourescents everywhere, many of which are exposed. Replacing them with another fixture would require something with an equal or larger footprint so as to not leave imprints from the previous fixtures visible.

From what I had seen, most LED lighting offered, while using less power, also produced less light. I didn't think my coach was particularly well lit to begin with, and after a lot of reading it seemed that on a lumens/watt basis, flourescents were still out front. Then I stumbled upon marinebeam - Replacement LED bulbs for your existing boat fixtures . Hmmm - don't need to change the fixtures - just mod and relamp. Sounded good.

This is one of the few web sites offering LED lighting which actually list useful data on their products, as opposed to descriptions such as "super bright" (compared to what?). While I found some specs at a few other sites offering flourescent LED replacements, no one came close to what marinebeam is offering.

Looking at the specs for the F8T5 lamps (12 inch, 8 watt flourescent), you have:

Thinlite - thine-lite Product6 - 8 watts, 0.8 amps, 400 lumens

MarineBeam - LED Fluorescent Replacement T5 Tube - 4.5 watts, 0.35 amps, 560 lumens

So the Thinlite provides 50 lumens per watt, and the marinebeam 124 lumens per watt. Replacing the flourescent lamp with the LED lamp will provide 40% more light using only 44% of the power of the flourescent. They have constant current drivers built in to account for ever-changing battery bank voltage. And a 2 year warranty to boot. Please note - this is comparing cool white to cool white color rendering. Many have said they prefer warm white, which produces less light, be it flourescent or LED. I personally prefer cool white as it provides truer color rendering.

They are not cheap, but - in my case, I had to replace most of the ballasts in the coach at $25 apiece and up, and gee, better carry spares, too, then new lamps and more spares... suddenly the LEDs lamps are not so expensive after all. And I don't need spare anythings, and don't need to replace lamps annually. Sounded good.

After exchanging a couple of emails, I did a bulk purchase to replace all the lamps in the coach (except for the indirect T-8 lamps in the blinds - I'll deal with those later). This came to 12 of the F8T5 lamps, and 10 F13T5 lamps. FWIW - I asked if there was a volume discount - I was sent a discount code which saved me 10% on the purchase at checkout. I also got one of the marine fixtures to replace an under cabinet flourescent the previous owner had installed (and made a mess of).

At this point nothing has been installed yet; trying to finish up other projects before I do the relamping. I did, however, take some photos to compare the illumination of the Thinlite fluorescent fixture to the Marinebeam LED lamp. I removed the under-counter fluorescent in the coach, installed a brand new Cool White lamp, then took the marine fixture with LED lamp, and a regulated 12 volt DC supply (regulated at 13.8 VDC), and hooked everything up. I took the photos in the bright morning sun which comes through the kitchen windows, but my camera reacted to the light intensity by dimming itself to compensate - so the photos look like they were taken at night.

In my eyes, it's no contest - the marinebeam LED lamps are significantly brighter than the Thinlite flourescents, finally crossing the efficiency threshold (lumens/watt) that fluorescents have long held. Interesting that both lamps are cool white, but the fluorescent has more pink/yellow visible.

More pics to come as the transformation occurs.

Steve
1991 U225 Grand Villa

Re: LED lighting on an older coach, or Thinlite vs MarineBeam

Reply #1 –
Thanks for the info. I am looking forward to seeing your results.

Mark
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Mark and Tanya
Milton , Florida
US Navy Veteran (DV)
1999 U270 Special 40' CAI , 2015 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

Re: LED lighting on an older coach, or Thinlite vs MarineBeam

Reply #2 –
Great post... and exactly what I was looking for too. Thanks. :)

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: LED lighting on an older coach, or Thinlite vs MarineBeam

Reply #3 –
Changed out the overhead Thinlite innards in our U300. Bought two 5 meter rolls 600 LEDs in warm white and one 5 meter roll of 300 LEDs in red. The red is dash operated for night driving, etc. The warm white gets rid of the florescent look and provides excellent lighting.

Used two warm white strips in each Thinlite as well as a center red strip. Had to run a new wire for the red strips.

About $70 for supplies with a ton of LEDs left over. Used waterpoof but regular LEDs are cheaper still. Waterproof are easier to peel an inch of clear silicon off and solder to the fresh copper.

Supplier is California based at: 5M 600 LED 3528 Waterproof Warm White SMD Epoxy Flexible Lamp Strip Light 12V |

A little solder work is necessary as well as Radio Shack supplies like the small euro connectors and the shrink tubing. 30 watt pencil iron does the trick for soldering.

See my previous posts for the window lighting and reading light conversion.
LED Interior Lights Conversion

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: LED lighting on an older coach, or Thinlite vs MarineBeam

Reply #4 –
Looks pretty good Pierce. Some questions for you:

1. Did you add a constant current driver somewhere in the circuitry?
2. Are you still using the original diffuser lenses?
3. How do they compare in brightness to the original lamps?

I don't have any double fixtures like that in my coach. They're all 171 series fixtures. I considered going the route you went, but I wanted more light than the fluorescents offered, and from info I had I'd need to fit a lot of strips in those little fixtures to get the luminosity the marinebeam lamps put out.

I will, however, very likely use LED strips for the indirect lighting. Thanks for the link.  :)

Steve
1991 U225 Grand Villa

Re: LED lighting on an older coach, or Thinlite vs MarineBeam

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Merle Hench –
Then I stumbled upon marinebeam - Replacement LED bulbs for your existing boat fixtures . Hmmm - don't need to change the fixtures - just mod and relamp. Sounded good.

This is one of the few web sites offering LED lighting which actually list useful data on their products, as opposed to descriptions such as "super bright" (compared to what?). While I found some specs at a few other sites offering flourescent LED replacements, no one came close to what marinebeam is offering.

They are not cheap, but - in my case, I had to replace most of the ballasts in the coach at $25 apiece and up, and gee, better carry spares, too, then new lamps and more spares... suddenly the LEDs lamps are not so expensive after all.

Steve,

We are fans of Marinebeam for their technical information as well.  Some of their products were a bit pricey in the past if you could find the same thing elsewhere, like the G4-base puck LED lights that are halogen bi-pin replacements, but I see they have now come down in price and are now reasonably competitive.

I do like the idea of the LED replacements for the fluorescent tubes and ballasts.  Aside from the lumens and power, there's the advantage of getting rid of the ballasts.  We have had issues with fluorescent ballasts interfering with the A/V IR eye in our coach.  We actually had to replace the fixture over the kitchen counter this past year.  Seems its ballast was injecting noise on the 12V house wiring as it was failing.  Nice to see they offer the LED "tubes" in warm white as well.

Thanks for posting  ^.^d

Michelle
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: LED lighting on an older coach, or Thinlite vs MarineBeam

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Merle Hench –
Looks pretty good Pierce. Some questions for you:

1. Did you add a constant current driver somewhere in the circuitry?
2. Are you still using the original diffuser lenses?
3. How do they compare in brightness to the original lamps?

I don't have any double fixtures like that in my coach. They're all 171 series fixtures. I considered going the route you went, but I wanted more light than the fluorescents offered, and from info I had I'd need to fit a lot of strips in those little fixtures to get the luminosity the marinebeam lamps put out.

I will, however, very likely use LED strips for the indirect lighting. Thanks for the link.  :)

Steve

Steve,

No, just plugged into house 12V using same switches, wires, OEM lenses, etc. I have seen some sellers advertise 9 to 15 volts. My are working fine.

Assuming you are talking about ThinLite 171 under cabinets. A single strip of LED is brighter and the color is spot on compared to the florescents (and I used 300 LEDs per 5 meters on the under cabinet lights). You do have to order a couple of lenses and make a precise cut to replace where the ballast was located. If you wanted them really bright, you could double row the 8MM or use the 10MM LED strips (didn't mention them, did I?) and they would really put out the light. The total LED length is greater on the 171s as no space is taken up by the ballasts.

 A 4 watt MR16 spot LED bulb makes a perfect reading light.

Aside from less power used and great color, I love the instant on when you flip the switch.

For a detailed installation on the ThinLite 17X strips, check out my previous posts and photos.

A Flagstaff ThinLite distributor sells lenses for all models and also has a clear replacement for the amber outside light.

The term "superbright" must apply to the 600 LED/5 meters. They were only available in China until recently.

And last, here is a site comparing the SMD 3528 8MM that I used against the SMD 5050 10MM strips: The Comparison Between SMD 3528 and SMD 5050 LED Strip Lights :  I just felt they were overkill.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: LED lighting on an older coach, or Thinlite vs MarineBeam

Reply #7 –
G'day everyone,

The LED lighting install began yesterday; my electrician friend came by so I set him loose on the lighting while I worked on the fridge install trim pieces and sorted out the engine bay. He was on a roll, and insisted on working until it was done - which took until 10:15 pm last night. All that remains now is the three short fixtures around the bathroom vent fan, and the under-cabinet light in the kitchen.

The difference is truly astonishing. You have to see it to believe it. The pictures don't really do it. I wanted to do more comparison photos before and after, but half the exisiting lighting wasn't working, so it wouldn't be a fair test. I did take a couple of pictures of one side of the bedroom showing a pair of the F8 LED tubes next to a pair of F13 fluorescent lamps.

After removing lamps and covers, we looked at the installations and decided it would be easiest to just remove each fixture, modify it, then reinstall it. We encountered one mismatched fixture which had been previously changed, and some previous owner wiring modifications which had to be straightened out. All the ballasts had been replaced at least once in this coach's lifetime. No more.

Once the fixture was removed, the rivets securing the ballast were drilled out, and the wires were cut close to the ballast. Only one wire is needed at each socket, so the extra wiring was removed. A couple of pics below show a modified F8 fixture ready to be reinstalled. The fixtures were hard-wired back into place; where wire nuts had been is now crimped butt connectors.

I know most folks prefer warm white - but I like the pure white color of these lamps. Given how much brighter the coach is inside, I don't see much need to ever have all the lamps on. Even just the hall light provides adequate lighting front to back to see where you're going. The bedroom is bright enough that I can work on the engine without any supplemental lighting.  :)

A disclaimer regarding the photos - I'm from the point and click school of photography. As such, the camera adjusted itself for the lighting in the frame, and consequently some photos appear brighter than was actually the case, and in a couple of shots, appeared dimmer. Someone who knew how to operate a camera could get much better results than I can. Some pics taken at dusk, the rest after dark.

I'm very pleased with the transformation and end result. Probably been a very long time since all the lights worked in the coach.

Steve
1991 U225 Grand Villa

Re: LED lighting on an older coach, or Thinlite vs MarineBeam

Reply #8 –
Some more pics below.

Adding some colored mylar strips inside the diffuser lens' can make a dramatic difference in the mood and intensity of the lighting. Something to play with when time allows. I'd rather have to dim a bright light than live with a dim light.

Added a shot of the sofa-bed, which was recently recovered in pewter micro-fiber fabric by a friend with an upholstery shop. He did the job for the cost of materials plus some favors. Yesterday he delivered the headboard which was done with the same material. Looks a whole lot better for not a lot of money.

Steve
1991 U225 Grand Villa

Re: LED lighting on an older coach, or Thinlite vs MarineBeam

Reply #9 –
Merle... great photos. Those lights sure do look great. I plan to do the same thing to my U225 this spring. Thanks for posting!!!

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: LED lighting on an older coach, or Thinlite vs MarineBeam

Reply #10 –
Awesome progress, nice outcome! That will be one very nicely updated vintage Foretravel when you are finished... Can't wait to see it with your music workstation installed! Did you have to tear into the headliner for wiring access? Today looks like a warm sunny day in San Diego and I plan on making more subframe reconstruction progress, and I can't wait to get back to work on the inside when I am finished with all this dirty work.
Don
Quote from: Merle Hench –
Some more pics below.

Adding some colored mylar strips inside the diffuser lens' can make a dramatic difference in the mood and intensity of the lighting. Something to play with when time allows. I'd rather have to dim a bright light than live with a dim light.

Added a shot of the sofa-bed, which was recently recovered in pewter micro-fiber fabric by a friend with an upholstery shop. He did the job for the cost of materials plus some favors. Yesterday he delivered the headboard which was done with the same material. Looks a whole lot better for not a lot of money.

Steve
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson
 

Re: LED lighting on an older coach, or Thinlite vs MarineBeam

Reply #11 –
Thanks guys.  :) It's one of those projects where you have instant gratification.

Re: the headliner - it was sagging when I got it, and was the first thing on my list to fix. Ironically, it appears it will be the last thing to get fixed. My friend with the upholstery shop is going to talk to his buddy with an automotive trim shop to get some "expert" thoughts on how to best get it done. I know on my own that I'll mess it up, so looking for a little pro help. The front AC was replaced; waited until I had the roof coated before installing the new one. Despite my best efforts, some water seeped into the opening, wetting the headliner some, so I pulled it down to dry out. Looks somewhat hideous, but it's still under construction.

The music workstation is finished and ready to go in. Waiting until after chassis service is done (going in next week) and the carpet is shampooed before putting it in (needs to get just a little warmer for that). I redid the tank bay, replacing the exisitng dump valves and adding the third valve, but still need to redo the access door.

It's finally coming together. I can see light at the end of the tunnel - the list of things remaining is getting shorter instead of longer. ;D It won't be long before I start loading her up for the great adventure ahead.

I think you'll like these lights Craig. You may wish to get one each of the cool white and warm white lamps to see which one you will prefer, before buying in bulk.

Once you get that frame sorted out Don, you'll be over the hump. I tend to find excuses not to get into something messy or unpleasant, but I have to keep telling myself it's not going to get done on it's own. Looking forward to seeing how your coach turns out as well.

Steve
1991 U225 Grand Villa