Engine won't start - out in boonies

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Engine won't start - out in boonies

February 02, 2012, 09:58:15 am

I have been living part time this winter out at Granger Lake COE park near Georgetown, Texas.

I got out yesterday to start the coach and move it to another site.
The engine turned over just fine but never caught.
No smoke - just cranks.

I have plenty of fuel.
There is fuel in the primary filter - at least it comes out the bottom.

It started fine and I ran for about 50 miles a month ago.

I put a call in to a Fleetcare shop and he said probably a sensor but they would need their computer.
After I explained that it was the mechanical 300hp 8.3 (again) He said he would check (with someone else?) and would call me back.

What sensor and where is it?
We have had mice around.

What next?
Any suggestions?

elliott bray
281-703-9499

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #1 – February 02, 2012, 10:20:33 am

From my limited experience.......fwiw......you have air in fuel line. Check all fuel filters.

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #2 – February 02, 2012, 10:47:26 am

Quote from: TheBrays – February 02, 2012, 09:58:15 am

I have been living part time this winter out at Granger Lake COE park near Georgetown, Texas.

I got out yesterday to start the coach and move it to another site.
The engine turned over just fine but never caught.
No smoke - just cranks.

I have plenty of fuel.
There is fuel in the primary filter - at least it comes out the bottom.

It started fine and I ran for about 50 miles a month ago.

I put a call in to a Fleetcare shop and he said probably a sensor but they would need their computer.
After I explained that it was the mechanical 300hp 8.3 (again) He said he would check (with someone else?) and would call me back.

What sensor and where is it?
We have had mice around.

What next?
Any suggestions?

elliott bray
281-703-9499

Here is a Fuel system overview for your engine that might help isolate the problem.
Cummins 300hp 8.3 Fuel System Overview

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #3 – February 02, 2012, 03:49:54 pm

Elliott,

Between the fuel filters and the injection pump is a "fuel return valve"; when it fails, it allows fuel to leave the injection pump and return to the fuel filters. It's on the passenger side near the injection pump, but I can't tell you specifically where it is because a diesel mechanic showed it (defective one) to me after he had replaced it. It's not large nor expensive. The other possibility is the "fuel cutoff" solenoid which is in the same vicinity (passenger side, ro right of oil fill on side of engine). If the solenoid (electromagnet) fails, fuel won't flow to injection pump. A little more expensive, but not really labor intensive for a real diesel mechanic.

Both the fuel return and fuel cutoff solenoid on my 8.3 died within a few months of each other when my coach was 15-16 years old, similar to the age of your coach.

Hope this helps.

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #4 – February 02, 2012, 04:54:37 pm

You might try loosening one of the injector nozzle fuel feed lines and see what comes out. If nothing comes out then it's a blockage in the fuel system (or defective pump). If frothy fuel comes out then there is an air leak. If pure fuel comes out then something else is going on. At least it will narrow it down.

Craig`

PS: If the fuel is bubbly when you crack the nut on the fuel line (right at the injector) you may have just lost your prime or gotten air into the system. Leave the nut loose and see if you get clear fuel after a bit. If it does clear up, then you should crack every one, one at a time, until you get clear fuel out of each injector line. At some point the engine will start - running on the fuel to the injectors you've bled - while you're working on it.

WDR

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #5 – February 02, 2012, 07:42:40 pm

What engine do you have .Cat will loose there prime .Can you prime your engine .
Let me know
Al

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #6 – February 02, 2012, 08:03:45 pm

FIXED!!!

The fuel shutoff solenoid had become stuck - whether from old age or a piece of the ragged rubber boot had lodged in the armature. In any event. I was able reach it and turn the plunger and free it.

Then I had to give it several attempts of cranking for ~20 sec followed by 5 min. rests before fuel got back into the engine. Lovely sound!!!

I'll investigate a replacement.

Thanks for your concern.

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #7 – February 02, 2012, 08:06:59 pm

Quote from: TheBrays – February 02, 2012, 08:03:45 pm

FIXED!!!

Yayyy!!!

Glad you're running again.

Craig

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #8 – February 02, 2012, 08:17:42 pm

Elliott,
Glad to learn that the fuel shutoff solenoid was just stuck. If you ever get in a bind and it won't lift the lever up to start the engine, you can use a long, heavy-duty black cable tie (12-18" long), wrap it around the lever, tighten it up and keep it that way till you get home. When mine died the mechanic gave me such a cable tie and showed me where to put it for future use. The only problem is you have to cut the tie to turn the engine off, but at least you can travel to get it home or to a service center. I keep a couple of those ties in my tool box just in case.

It's just a thought, as your shutoff solenoid is getting a bit "long in the tooth".

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #9 – February 02, 2012, 08:49:52 pm

Great. Yup, anytime a diesel won't start it is almost always a fuel issue. Glad you had an easy fix.. Remember a couple posts on solenoid failure that Don Hay mentioned how to fix.

Gotta love the forum..

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #10 – February 03, 2012, 07:42:19 pm

Here's another shocker for you. If the solenoid hangs up, it could be a broken spring inside. If you do not replace the unit, another problem could arise where the solenoid opens enough to let the engine start, but won't allow the rack to increase fuel as you try to increase speed, resulting in what would seem to be a huge loss of power exacerbated by the fact that you will be able to hear the click as the solenoid gets electrified. It is the 12 volts that keeps the solenoid open continuously.

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #11 – February 03, 2012, 07:52:06 pm

The fuel solenoid on the C series has two coils inside, one is the pull in coil, it hits the switch and the hold in coil holds it in, while the pull in coil is released (disconnected).
The pull in draws about 20 amps, the hold in coil drawsn about half amp.. Keep your fingers away when you energize it, or it will hurt you.
In our business, we every few years remove it, clean up, lube the slide with silicone grease and reassemble, check the amp draw.
FWIW

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #12 – February 03, 2012, 09:34:53 pm

Does the M11 have a solenoid valve with a lever that you can manually tie open like the 8.3 engine?

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #13 – February 04, 2012, 08:50:01 am

John,

No it doesn't.

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #14 – February 04, 2012, 11:51:21 am

Thanks Amos.

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #15 – February 04, 2012, 11:53:39 am

does anyone who has had this problem have a photo to share online for those of us that have not had it? It may help us in the future. If not with plastic tie on then at least a picture of the unit.
John

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #16 – February 04, 2012, 03:32:13 pm

It is almost too simple to describe. You can actually remove the solenoid with 2 bolts and a keeper spring. Once off, you will see the actuator lever for the injector rack. Simply wire tie or bale wire it wide open. The engine will then perform normally.

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #17 – February 04, 2012, 08:46:39 pm

If your CPL #2169 The fuel solenoid is Cummins #3934171, Found on the internet at $95.00.
This is not Cummins price.
This is vertical mounted, not horizontal.
Just a thought.
Dave M

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #18 – February 05, 2012, 08:47:29 am

Quote from: John Haygarth – February 04, 2012, 11:53:39 am

does anyone who has had this problem have a photo to share online for those of us that have not had it? It may help us in the future. If not with plastic tie on then at least a picture of the unit.
John

John

Barry has an article on replacing the solenoid - good pictures Fuel Shut Off Solenoid Replacement

HTH -- did me

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #19 – February 05, 2012, 12:03:48 pm

Good info, the Cummins Solenoid Kit # 4089574 Cummins List Price $391.32 if you need it, no idea of the CPL numbers it works with. Looks like a great update kit from Barry Beam info sheet.
Dave M

Re: Engine won't start - out in boonies

Reply #20 – February 05, 2012, 12:10:39 pm

Thanks for the link Elliott I did not look for it and should have as Barry has links to almost everything, but good clear reading.
John H

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