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Topic: Classic Rookie Mistake - Impacted Black Tank (Read 2260 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Classic Rookie Mistake - Impacted Black Tank

Reply #25 –
Christi,

Can you see the black drain valve or is yours buried behind a fiberglass cover?  Do you feel resistance when you pull on the valve handle?  The reason I ask this is to determine whether it is a straight shot from where the sewer hose couples to the Valtera (or Thetford) and to the black valve opening or is it a right angle?  If you feel resistance when opening the black valve (the blade is probably moving), I suspect that the opening is plugged with a mass of dried solids and paper.  In my '92 U-280, when I open the Thetford cover on the drain, it is a straight line into the black tank (the black valve blade is perpendicular to the ground, so I just lift the handle straight up). Therefore, if necessary, I could insert a steel rod gently but firmly into the base of the black tank.  As someone else suggested, you could wrap the rod with rags to seal around it, minimizing the leakage once the blockage is removed.  However, sooner or later, things are going to get messy. :-(

If the drain pipe is at right angles to the black tank valve I don't know how you would get something up into the base of the black tank to free up the blockage.

It is amazing to me that all manufacturers of RV's with black holding tanks don't put in BOLD LETTERS in their Instruction Manual :  "DO NOT OPEN BLACK TANK VALVE UNTIL TANK IS AT LEAST 3/4'S FULL".  Foretravel doesn't include anything like this, nor do many 5th wheel manufacturers.  :-(

Good Luck,

Don Hay
'92 Grandvilla, U-280
The Hayfever Express
Build #4055
'97 GEO Tracker
Life is like licking honey off a thorn.

Re: Classic Rookie Mistake - Impacted Black Tank

Reply #26 –
Quote from: Christis Dream –
Well after adding softner and taking our black tank for a ride today - we hooked back up, opened the valve & NOTHING!!!  Starting to think maybe the black valve is not functioning.  How hard is this to get at on our '93?  Can we get at the blade & open it manually once we remove the panels from the utility bay? 
  I removed the fiberglass panel to do some work on my valves and faucet supply lines. If yours is the same as a 1994 U300 just remove the faucet assembly and the screws that hold the right 3/4 of the fascia panel, also the "T" handles unscrew & the panel should come out/off.  My coach gives me access to both black & gray water valves. 
The selected media item is not currently available.
Gerry & Brenda
CHARLOTTE HARBOR, FL
1994 Grand Villa - # 4466
U300 Unihome - 6V92 Detroit
4 speed Allison - Jake Brake

Re: Classic Rookie Mistake - Impacted Black Tank

Reply #27 –
Christi, I just picked up on this thread. I hope your problem is resolved but if not the following worked for me to release the Poop Block.

I presume your U280 is the same setup as our U300. You should be able to tell by feel if the gate valve for the black tank is working. If it is broken, it will be very easy to pull. If it is functional it will be fairly hard to pull. Our valve broke right in the Foretravel parking lot as we were leaving for OKC. They were able to fix it while we were there. Gerry has already described how to get to your gate valves. 

If the valve is not broken, which I suspect, get a large pan to catch any spill from the dump pipe. With this method works there will still be a little spillage, IF YOU ARE LUCKY.

1. Fill the gray water tank as full as possible. You are going to use the gray water which has a larger tank to create back pressure to release the blockage from the bottom side.
2. Leave the dump end cap securely fastened with the black valve open.
3. Momentarily open the gray water tank and listen for a burp in the black tank. The larger gray tank should create enough back pressure to release the black tank blockage. Be very careful to not leave the gray valve open for more than a few seconds because if the blockage releases it could cause the black tank to overflow if toilet valve is not perfectly tight.
4. If you heard a back flow into the black tank, close the black tank valve and very carefully and slowly remove the pipe cap allowing the effluent in the pipe to run into your catch pan. It should be all gray water.
5. Attach your dump hose as usual and open the black valve. It should flow as normal.

If this doesn't work the first time.

1. With the dump cap on securely open the black valve then open the gray valve allowing the gray water to back flow up to the black tank blockage. Wait five minutes to allow any trapped air to work its way up through the blockage so that the gray water will be in contact with the blockage from the bottom side. We want it to soften the blockage. Then close the gray valve and leave this for  several hours or over night. Hopefully all the gray water in the line to soften the blockage from the bottom.
2. Try step 3, 4, and 5 above.

Repeat this procedure until the blockage finally give way.

If you are careful and with a little luck you will not get any nasty surprises.
The selected media item is not currently available.Kent Speers
Locust Grove, OK
1993 U300 SSE 40' (Restored at FOT 2009) Build 4323
720 watts Solar
6V92TA DDEC Silver Engine
2014 Subaru Outback

Re: Classic Rookie Mistake - Impacted Black Tank

Reply #28 –

This might help.  Attach one of these valves to the black tank outlet on the coach.

Amazon.com: Camco 39062 RV Dual Flush Pro Holding Tank Rinser with Gate Valve:

If there is not enough room you can use one of these extension pieces.  They are available in different lengths.

Valterra - Clearview 5" Sewer Adapter with Bayonet Lugs - T1021 - Sewer Fittings

Close valve.  Remove the hose washout cap.  Put clean out snake through the hose inlet (do not use a power snake).  Open coach's tank valve.  Use snake to break up blockage.  When blockage releases you will only have a small opening to block which will greatly reduce spillage.  Attach hose to outside valve and flush.  Now you can try any of the previous tank cleaning recipes to finish the job.  Many of us have fitted a third valve like this permanently so we can back flush the black tank with grey water as Kent described.

Keith

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.
Keith, Joyce & Smokey the Australian Cattle Dog
1995 U320 SE Extreme 40' WTBI Build # 4780, with a Honda CR-V hopefully still following behind.
Motorcade # 17030
FMCA # F422159

Re: Classic Rookie Mistake - Impacted Black Tank

Reply #29 –
SUCCESS!!!!! ^.^d  We tried back flushing the grey tank with no success - without a 3rd valve it is hard to get enough suction.  We ended up removing the blade valve and running an auger up that way - that eliminated 1 of the 2  90 elbows there.  After we got some movement that way we re-installed the blade valve and attached our longest drain hose. we then kept filling the hose with water until it would back all the way into the tank then hurry and drop the hose into the sewer hole and let suction take over.  After about four or five times of doing this we were successful in moving the blockage and empty the tank. 

This lesson should go at the top of any & every "newbie" thread!

Thank you all so much for your ideas, encouragement and general support!
Christi & Ray Stoltz
1993 U280 40'

Re: Classic Rookie Mistake - Impacted Black Tank

Reply #30 –
I learned my RV plumbing & tank maintenance from a very good teacher, my father-in-law (RIP). We don't even rinse the coffee pot inside the RV. Coffee grounds can cause the dump valves to leak. And yes, always use plenty of water in the black tank and dump when full, if possible.

Peter
Peter & Beth Martin
No Forrest? What have you done?
MC# 15890 until Dec 2016; FMCA #F329677
Cincinnati, OH

Re: Classic Rookie Mistake - Impacted Black Tank

Reply #31 –
Christi, I think you are right, those various solutions need Newbie thread posting.  Perhaps Barry will agree. 

An RVer with years of experience taught us to keep a closable trash can by the commode.  Paper goes in the can and the plastic liner bag of the can is discarded daily.  I know some paper more than other is "digestible" in the black water tank, but we decided our friends might be right so have begun that way for now.  If you have not seen the movie "RV" with Robin Williams, they showed me that and it was enough to worry me about the sewer system.  Glad you got unpacted.  Mike
Mike
2001 U320 4010 Build 5878 (Gus)
Wrangle Unlimited Toad
Nacogdoches

Re: Classic Rookie Mistake - Impacted Black Tank

Reply #32 –
Quote from: Michael Jackie –
Christi, I think you are right, those various solutions need Newbie thread posting.  Perhaps Barry will agree. 

An RVer with years of experience taught us to keep a closable trash can by the commode.  Paper goes in the can and the plastic liner bag of the can is discarded daily.  I know some paper more than other is "digestible" in the black water tank, but we decided our friends might be right so have begun that way for now.  If you have not seen the movie "RV" with Robin Williams, they showed me that and it was enough to worry me about the sewer system.  Glad you got unpacted.  Mike

Wow!!  If I thought I had to keep a covered can by the commode so as not to clog the plumbing, I would be out of this rig and off the road in a very short time.  Common sense and a fairly liberal addition of water along with a septic safe paper is really all that you need.  I am careful about what goes into my grey tank (which can be a lot more foul than the black water, really) and use Dawn because it helps dissolve the grease.  But with just a little attention to these systems, you can live a trouble free life, really.
Carol & Jeff Savournin
Usta have a '93 U225 36', Usta have a '95 U320 40', Usta have a '02 U320 40'
Usta have a 2006 Born Free, Usta have a 2011 Phoenix Cruiser
Usta have a 2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited 4dr
"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life."  Steve Jobs

Re: Classic Rookie Mistake - Impacted Black Tank

Reply #33 –
Quote from: Carol Savournin –
Wow!!  If I thought I had to keep a covered can by the commode so as not to clog the plumbing, I would be out of this rig and off the road in a very short time.  Common sense and a fairly liberal addition of water along with a septic safe paper is really all that you need.  I am careful about what goes into my grey tank (which can be a lot more foul than the black water, really) and use Dawn because it helps dissolve the grease.  But with just a little attention to these systems, you can live a trouble free life, really.
I TOTALLY agree with Carol! ^.^d The common sense advice for black and grey tanks, as found here on the forum, will provide that trouble-free life she describes!

In our former sticks-and-bricks, after septic tank clogging problems (no need to detail!), we did resort to the covered can by the commode to significantly reduce paper disposal.  HOWEVER, we also added an after-market bidet (which went by a totally different name in our household ::) ) to minimize the unpleasantness of the covered can.  Sadly, it's not practical to add the Toto Washlet (Product Detail) to the RV commode. :(
The selected media item is not currently available.Pat Hatfield
2000 U295 3600 #5666 WTFE (sold 1/7/20)
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee
previously: 2003 U295 3610 #6228 (sold 5/29/14)
previously:  2009 Honda CRV (sold 6/9/14)

Re: Classic Rookie Mistake - Impacted Black Tank

Reply #34 –
I think we should rename Carol, The Cleaning Lady.  :D
The selected media item is not currently available.Bill&Doris 97 U270 36'
University of Parris Island Class of 66
Semper Fi  Build# 5174 MC#17094

Re: Classic Rookie Mistake - Impacted Black Tank

Reply #35 –
Quote from: Patricia –
I TOTALLY agree with Carol! ^.^d The common sense advice for black and grey tanks, as found here on the forum, will provide that trouble-free life she describes!

...  Sadly, it's not practical to add the Toto Washlet (Product Detail) to the RV commode. :(
We have well water and septic system at home. We fortunately have had no special problems with the systems in the six years we have lived in the country. We use "ordinary" supplies. We put kitchen scraps in the trash or the compost pile.

In coach, we generally use some kind of "septic tank" paper. I use Dawn down the commode after I empty the tanks. I add a bit more every couple of days. I'll put a bit in the toilet and allow it to slosh around as we drive. It helps keep the bowl clean and the seal lubricated.

I added a third dump valve. I back flush the black tank about three time with the grey water discharge when I dump the tanks.

We never leave the dump valves open. I try to let the waste tanks fill as much as is reasonable and convenient before dumping them. I prefer to drive a while before I empty the tanks.

We take no other special care actions regarding the waste tanks. This has worked well for us in three RVs.

Our coach came with a nozzle and valve that function as a bidet. When I was inspecting the coach, I leaned over the pot to look at the gadget and pressed a handle I didn't recognize to see what it would do. D'oh! :facepalm: Fortunately there was a towel nearby. Because the device lacks temperature control for the water, and it is not a device that was ever in our cultural history, it goes unused.
J D Stevens
1997 U295 CAI 36' Build #5085
2002 Subaru Outback
Motorcade 16869
Bellville, TX

Re: Classic Rookie Mistake - Impacted Black Tank

Reply #36 –
Thanks J.D.  Will follow your lead for managing, see if we can find septic safe paper.  I am sure my wife would appreciate getting rid of the can though she is a very good sport.  I think she thought this was one of my minor expectations compared to some of the efforts she has gone through with hunting and fishing, 4-wheelers, outdoors activities!  I do not know how we were going to get grandkids to comply anyway.  But these friends of ours in a fifth-wheel insisted we need the can method, and I checked, they have one so were not kidding us.  Thanks again for suggestion of a regimen to toss the can. Just got the FT today from MOT so busy loading it with "stuff", excited. Mike 
Mike
2001 U320 4010 Build 5878 (Gus)
Wrangle Unlimited Toad
Nacogdoches

Re: Classic Rookie Mistake - Impacted Black Tank

Reply #37 –
Quote
Thanks J.D. Will follow your lead for managing, see if we can find septic safe paper. I am sure my wife would appreciate getting rid of the can though she is a very good sport. I think she thought this was one of my minor expectations compared to some of the efforts she has gone through with hunting and fishing, 4-wheelers, outdoors activities! I do not know how we were going to get grandkids to comply anyway. But these friends of ours in a fifth-wheel insisted we need the can method, and I checked, they have one so were not kidding us. Thanks again for suggestion of a regimen to toss the can. Just got the FT today from MOT so busy loading it with "stuff", excited. Mike

We've used a can since 2003. No problem with grand kids. No problem with dumping black water either.

No big deal at all.

best, paul
1999 U320 40' 1200 watts on roof. 12cf AC/DC Cold plate fridge/freezer. VMS 240 CL Honda Element

Re: Classic Rookie Mistake - Impacted Black Tank

Reply #38 –
Thanks Paul, but when I showed this to Jackie, she said I was doing ok.  She was just glad to have potty paper!
Mike
2001 U320 4010 Build 5878 (Gus)
Wrangle Unlimited Toad
Nacogdoches

Re: Classic Rookie Mistake - Impacted Black Tank

Reply #39 –
Scott's single ply is septic safe,we have used it for years,plus I built my own tank flush for the black and gray tank's.
The selected media item is not currently available.Bill&Doris 97 U270 36'
University of Parris Island Class of 66
Semper Fi  Build# 5174 MC#17094
 

Re: Classic Rookie Mistake - Impacted Black Tank

Reply #40 –
We've kept with the camper type paper and every now and then I fill the black tank about half way with water and add calgon liquid water softener and forget about it for a while before dumping it.  Once a year I add a bag of ice and move the rig fore and aft for a few minutes before dumping.  Had no problems so far.  I never leave the valves open when hooked up.  It is a hassle having the tanks get full and at the worst moment have to go out and pull the valves but that's the way it goes.
Dwayne Keith
1992 U240
3116/MD3060