How to raise the coach with no air?

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How to raise the coach with no air?

July 05, 2012, 10:21:00 pm

So I have a leaking air bag and from the looks of it I won't be able to raise the rear drivers side to put any kind of support in. Has anyone had any experience finding a jack to raise the coach with air bags totally deflated? I took a quick look and it looked like it would be pretty difficult to get any jack in there to lift it to remove the air bag.

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #1 – July 05, 2012, 10:36:19 pm

Can't you put a hydraulic jack between the same frame members you will be putting the safety supports? Is the space so compressed you can't get a small jack in there? How about starting toward the middle and jacking from there?

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #2 – July 05, 2012, 11:53:27 pm

Not sure. Has anyone done that before? Is there enough room to fit a jack when fully deflated?

Best Regards,
Benjie

Benjie Zeller
(512) 587-4628

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #3 – July 05, 2012, 11:54:16 pm

without going out and looking under my coach, there must be somewhere under the coach, near the bulkhead area that you could carefully jack the body up just enough to get your jack in the desired location by the air bags. Maybe where the rear suspension sub assembly connects? Brett would know.

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #4 – July 06, 2012, 12:30:33 am

If you can get to the air line feeding the leaking air bag you can try clamping it off
then use the other 3 air bags to raise the coach.
You may need to replace the clamped off air line.

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #5 – July 06, 2012, 07:27:19 am

Benjie, If you have an air line connection in the bay you can connect a line from another air source using two male quick connects back to back , this will allow you to get air into the system, Unless the air bag is blown out completely this will get you enough air to raise the coach and then put your safety blocks in. The bag may be leaking badly but hopefully this would work.
Good luck
Gary B

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #6 – July 06, 2012, 07:37:24 am

I would undo the air line at the bad bag and then plug the air line. you have about 6" of heath to install a jack so use a 10 ton hydraulic jack like a enerpac or porta power with a remote hand pump and the other air bags to lift the motor home. Install your safety blocks and your good to go. you can rent the jack at most tool rental places . Gam

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #7 – July 06, 2012, 09:02:08 am

C4, but you gotta be quick with the jack placement!!

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #8 – July 06, 2012, 11:41:01 am

Quote from: Benjie Zeller – July 05, 2012, 10:21:00 pm

So I have a leaking air bag and from the looks of it I won't be able to raise the rear drivers side to put any kind of support in. Has anyone had any experience finding a jack to raise the coach with air bags totally deflated? I took a quick look and it looked like it would be pretty difficult to get any jack in there to lift it to remove the air bag.

Benjie,

Here is the post from a week or so ago. Air ride bag replacement number? I made a couple of adjustable tools to fit between the frame members so when you are underneath with the 10 ton jack, it can't slip off and crush you or your hand. The jack is a 10 ton short jack that most part stores have. The bottom of the jack goes on the GROUND and the piston end goes against part of the SPRUNG frame. Make sure the piston end is on a secure spot before starting to jack it. Don't use a trailing arm to try and jack the rig up.

Don't crimp off that air line. Take the 90 degree fitting off the top of the air bag and go to any hardware store and buy a brass cap to fit it. Then put the 90 back on the hose with the brass cap installed and see if the other air bag will lift the rig. If the tire does not clear the top of the wheel well, don't move it.

When I changed mine, even with the cap on, I could not lift that side with the air. I just took my 10 ton jack underneath and jacked the sprung part of the frame up but I used the adjustable safety tools to protect myself in case it came off the jack. Takes a couple hundred strokes of the jack handle to get it up all the way. Every 20 strokes or so, I would extend the adjustable safety tool. Jacking up is the hardest part of the operation. If you have the other tools and follow the post, it's only 10 minutes to change the bag. A lot longer if you don't have the wrench for the blind top air bag nut needed on 4 of the bags.

Here is the photo of the adj. safety tool and the brass cap. Don't bother with the dbl. male fitting as it needs to be drilled inside so the black plastic air line will go in one end. Just use the 90 degree fitting with the hardware store cap screwed on. You have to take the 90 off anyway when you change bags.

That was the same driver's side rear bag as mine. Probably the rear bag of the two? If the front side of the two, make/buy a wrench for the blind nut so you don't have to remove the fender. The factory would NEVER remove the fender as it takes 100 times longer than using the right tool for the blind nut.

Make sure you have tires blocked if your coach is on any kind of an incline.

Give me a call if you have a problem.

Pierce

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #9 – July 06, 2012, 11:46:35 am

Why be quick with the jack? With no air you will be down all the way to start. On my U295 I can undo 6 of the 8 air lines without going under the coach. A remote pump hyd jack with a 6" head will fit just inside of the air bag and still leave room for the safety block. Gam

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #10 – July 06, 2012, 12:36:57 pm

Quote from: gam – July 06, 2012, 11:46:35 am

Why be quick with the jack? With no air you will be down all the way to start. On my U295 I can undo 6 of the 8 air lines without going under the coach. A remote pump hyd jack with a 6" head will fit just inside of the air bag and still leave room for the safety block. Gam

Was just thinking of the jack I normally carry on board for flat tires. Remote head jack or port-a-power will work great but not something everyone may have, want to invest in or have room to carry along for a very occasional use. Suspect most air bag failures are away from home so my advice covers side of the road repairs. I do also carry my very light adjustable safety in with my other air bag related tools. And yes, most but not all of the air lines are accessible from outside so there is a 75% chance that with your remote jack, you don't have to go all the way under at all.

Most of our trips have a significant percentage of time out of cell range or in another country so like to carry stuff to do it myself without filling the compartment with too many heavy items.

Pierce

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #11 – July 12, 2012, 03:11:39 pm

So I looked under the coach today trying to determine where I could jack up the coach in order to remove the air bag. Pierce, I didn't see any frame member low enough to where a 10 ton jack could reach it from the ground. Do you happen to have a pic of the area you're referring to? The only place I saw that might be low enough to the ground was at the very back of the coach. I've attached some pics.

Pic 1 and Pic 2 are the same section just from different angles. I was thinking about placing a 2x6 against this and then jacking up the the rear of the coach from here. Pic 3 shows where and how this is attached to the frame member (red arrow) which is the same frame member supported by the air bags. The blue arrow is the vertical frame portion that I would be accessing with the jack. Anyone have any comments on this method? Specifically, if its robust enough to support this kind of load?

The only other access I saw would maybe be the oil pan guard framework as it's bolted straight into the same square tube that the air bag supports, but not sure how robust that is either?

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #12 – July 12, 2012, 04:21:11 pm

As a test I undid the air line and capped it to the left rear air bag of the front of my u295.I then put a 2 ton automotive scissor jack between the upper a lower support arms just inboard of that air bag. with the air bags being inflated I was easily able to raise the corner with no air. I know that the front has less weight then the rear. The rear has about 2 1/2 tons per corner . but I think the 3 bags with air will help the jack lift the total weight.So I my have to give that a go. I just think it is better to use something that was designed to carrier the weight then something that might. Gam

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #13 – July 13, 2012, 01:05:39 am

I thought I had read somewhere that someone tried capping a leaking bag's air supply line and had no luck raising the coach high enough to get their safely blocks in, but I also might have dreamed it as I can't find it anywhere. Well, I decided to try it anyway since a few of you had suggested it. Sure enough, the single air bag lifted it plenty high to get my safety block in! Spent most of the evening loosening bolts in tight places. Tomorrow, I need to purchase a wrench large enough to get the big nut off and then it's just a matter of putting the new air bag in! Thanks to all for your help!

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #14 – July 13, 2012, 01:23:13 pm

Ben Yesterday when I tried it on the front of my u295 with 3 bags it went up with ez I all but just followed it up with the jack. But the rear bags carry more weight . About 2 1/2 tons per bag on the rear so they may take a little assist from in my case a scissor jack. Gam

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #15 – July 14, 2012, 01:41:54 am

Gam, my single bag raised the rear up no issue! My coach may be a little lighter than yours.

Also, this tidbit of info may help someone along the way. When removing the right angle air hose fitting from the bag, try not to touch the threads. I messed up both of mine and found out that these are NOT typical 1/4 compression fittings that you would find in the plumbing section of your big box store. Also, FT does not stock them (at least for my year model) but can order them. After driving about 100 miles today all over Austin, I did find a place called Capital Bearing in Round Rock, TX that had the correct part. Apparently, they're pretty common parts for folks that deal with air lines but Home Depot, Grainger, and a popular plumbing supply store had no clue what it was. Also, the hydraulic guys couldn't help, but pointed me to Capital Bearing. As with most things, a little knowledge on where to look or who to ask can save a lot of wasted time!

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #16 – July 14, 2012, 10:53:29 am

Quote from: Benjie Zeller – July 13, 2012, 01:05:39 am

I thought I had read somewhere that someone tried capping a leaking bag's air supply line and had no luck raising the coach high enough to get their safely blocks in, but I also might have dreamed it as I can't find it anywhere. Well, I decided to try it anyway since a few of you had suggested it. Sure enough, the single air bag lifted it plenty high to get my safety block in! Spent most of the evening loosening bolts in tight places. Tomorrow, I need to purchase a wrench large enough to get the big nut off and then it's just a matter of putting the new air bag in! Thanks to all for your help!

The hardware/plumbing store cap worked OK on mine. I was stopped on an angle and could not get the left rear single bag to lift the coach. Tire was against the top of the wheel well and I was concerned about damaging it so did it where it was.

For the large nut, you may have to purchase a box end wrench, cut it off about six inches long and then slide a pipe on it to loosen the nut. The confined space can be difficult without just the right length wrench. Once you have broken it loose, pull the pipe off and it will come off easily with the stubby box end. Would try and buy a box end without too much offset. HF a good source for an inexpensive wrench.

Pierce

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #17 – July 14, 2012, 11:07:14 am

I was able to get one of the large nuts off with a box end wrench I purchased. However, on the other side the floor safe is in the way to where I can't use the box end wrench with any leverage. I'm now resorting to at socket set and hoping I can find a position to get better leverage. Been using penetrating oil to help as well. We'll see!

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #18 – July 14, 2012, 01:23:47 pm

It looks like Foretravel installed the front airbags in each wheelwell so the tubing was protected by the frame . Wish they turned them 180 and installed a guard. Gama

Re: How to raise the coach with no air?

Reply #19 – July 15, 2012, 03:45:18 pm

Nothing like completing a job and everything works as it should! Two rear most airbags replaced as one side was leaking and the other looked to be in similar shape. Plan to address others as the budget allows. Thanks to all for your invaluable input!

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