Sewer valves

Topic: Sewer valves (Read 1769 times) previous topic - next topic

Sewer valves

March 31, 2012, 12:41:05 am

The grey water valve has always been a bit sticky so I decided to pull both sewer valves for inspection and lubrication. They are not easy to get out! That lower back nut/screw is a real contortionist challenge. But I did managed to get both valves out and they seem to work fine now. To do this I had to take both halves (upper and lower) of the panel out which covers the valve area. I did not remove the valve rubber gaskets, just the slide valve assembly. After removal I lubricated the shaft and the blade with silicon grease. Big improvement in ease of movement. I have a question.... is there anything tricky about reassembling these valves? I did notice that the four bolts are not identical.....the two top ones (toward the valve pull) are slightly longer. Anyway, any advice would be welcome. Pics to follow.

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #1 – March 31, 2012, 09:32:42 am

George, I don't recall if bolts are different. I used a product called plumbers grease when I redid mine, It apparently is not water soluble and may well be silicon based. It has helped for a couple years but it will soon be time to do it again.
Gary B

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #2 – March 31, 2012, 12:13:35 pm

We resolved recent stickiness of dump valves by pouring in vegetable oil into tank after dumping. Few minutes to let it settle down to back of valve, then many quick partial open & close to coat the valve. We have done this several times a year.

Once a valve is taken apart, it seems better to replace the valve & gaskets, keeping the outer parts attached to the 3" ABS.

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #3 – March 31, 2012, 01:42:52 pm

I agree with Barry & Cindy. Vegetable oil is the way to go. Cheap easy and effective. I was a little worried about pouring it through the sink trap to get into the gray water tank but have not seen any ill effects.

I drain and rinse the gray and black tanks. I then closed my gray, black and master valve. Then pour about 2.5 to 3 cups vegetable oil down the sink (estimate the trap held 1.5 cups). Waited about 5 minutes. Exercised the gray valve till it was sliding freely. Then left the gray open to fill the main 3 inch line to the black. The oil was held in by the master valve. Then exercised the black valve. When the black valve was sliding smoothly I moved on to the master valve. I can now/open close all valves with almost no effort. Close all valves and you're done. 3 bucks wisely invested!

I'm thinking of modifying my drain line by drilling a hole in the top of the line between the gray/black valves and the master valve (3rd valve). Then use a funnel to pour the oil in. I haven't decided how to plug the hole yet though. Maybe thread it and use a screw in plug or just a rubber plug... I really don't what that thing blowing out when I'm draining the black tank!

see ya
ken

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #4 – March 31, 2012, 03:59:26 pm

We have used most of a 1-1/2 quart bottle of Wal-Mart vegetable oil ($2.58) to lube gray & black dump valves, with about half bottle in each tank. Figure it all doesn't make it to the back of the valve. Still a cheap way to periodically eliminate sticky valves.

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #5 – March 31, 2012, 04:44:48 pm

In industrial applications, soap is used to lubricate stainless steel conveyor belts in bottling & canning operations such as beer and fruit juice lines. They clean and lube at the same time (this is a special industrial lube with built-in anti-microbials). We use lots of dish washing soap when doing the dishes and sometimes even pour some liquid dish washing detergent down the drain to provide the extra lube/cleansing of these valves. For the sewer tank, I just pour some liquid dish soap into the tank after dumping, then actuate the valves a few times (once a year...but we do not full time).

ps We also use a gallon of bleach in each tank then fill with water a quarter way, leave in there until the tanks need to be dumped. We do this at the beginning of each season to help clean & sanitize.

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #6 – March 31, 2012, 05:25:11 pm

Quote from: Peter & Beth – March 31, 2012, 04:44:48 pm

In industrial applications, soap is used to lubricate stainless steel conveyor belts in bottling & canning operations such as beer and fruit juice lines. They clean and lube at the same time (this is a special industrial lube with built-in anti-microbials).

Is that the brominated vegetable oil shown on the ingredients of canned drinks?

oldMattB

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #7 – March 31, 2012, 06:16:11 pm

Quote

Is that the brominated vegetable oil shown on the ingredients of canned drinks?

oldMattB

If you see that in any processed product, don't buy it. But, BVO may very well work out great as a lubricant in the waste tank!

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #8 – March 31, 2012, 08:37:52 pm

Seen it many times. I love the idea that we are talking about processed foods and waste tanks in the same thread.

oldMattB

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #9 – April 01, 2012, 12:41:21 am

Well, if you ever want to remove your valves for service, here are some pics from my efforts. Here is how I did this....

1. Remove top panel...three screws. This panel has three switches (at least on my coach) plus a 110v plug, and a plug for cable TV and a phone line. The switch wires are easy to remove and the rest can be removed with not a lot of effort. See photo. To get this panel out I needed to remove the faucet spout and the hot water handle. The panel can pivot at the right back corner....pull the left corner out and then once the faucet is cleared, it can be removed.

2. Remove the bottom panel....four screws on the bottom. It also has connections to the faucet and to the black tank flush (see pics). Once everything is disconnected, the panel can be pulled up and removed. The area around the sewer outlet is rubber with a split on the bottom. This panel is a pain to take out, but I could not reach the back bolts on the valves without taking it out. On our coach someone had caulked around the edges of the panel.... really is not needed and I will not replace it so I can remove it easier the next time.

3. Once the panels are removed, the valves can be accessed. The biggest problem in removing either valve is the lower bolt and nut. The other three are easy to remove. A 12" (or so) socket extension is a worthwhile tool. Also, you can lift the pipe up a bit (like a 1/2") with a wedge of some sort so you can get around the bolt head with a tool. No doubt about it, this is a pain, but doable. Note that the top two bolts are a bit longer than the bottom two to accommodate the slide holder.

4. Once the valve bolts are out, gently push the pipe apart to liberate the valve. There are rubber gaskets on either side of the valve. I did not remove these. Once out, I lubricated everything that moved, including the shaft with silicone grease. To get to the shaft you will need to remove four more bolts on each valve...easy.

Then it is just a mater of putting it back together. But before doing that, I tested each valve and water connection to make sure I did not have any leaks. I made all the electrical connections such that they could be easily disconnected (i.e., the LED light leads). Also, as mentioned above, I did not caulk around the panels. Not sure why this was done in first place. If I have a leak, I'd like to know about it!. No sense in sealing it in.

All in all, not a big job, but worth it I think. At the very least I have a better idea how everything works and all three valves work a lot smoother.

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #10 – April 01, 2012, 11:11:36 am

George,
Very well thought out process for removal & installation of these panels. Not ever having done this type of repair/maintenance, is the fiberglass bottom portion of the underside visible when you are working on the valves? Reason I ask is that I would be concerned with water intrusion into the bulkhead area when you spill water onto the utility compartment area. Thus, the reason for caulking these panels?
Peter

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #11 – April 01, 2012, 11:22:23 am

Peter.... Good point and yes, that is a concern. This area is just in front of the rear bulkhead. I am in the process of cleaning up the bottom of the bulkhead seam (going to undercoat it) and I did find some rust in back of this area. It is on the bottom of the frame members.... between them and the fiberglass panel covering the bottom. Nothing serious, but something to be avoided. That is one reason I opened up the valve compartment so I could see if there is a leak. There did not appear to be one.

Most of the caulk was between the two panels and running up the sides of the panels. This would do little to keep any leaked water from the bulkhead area. I will just keep an eye on it to make sure a leak is not a chronic problem. Leaving the caulk out should make any leak more noticeable.

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #12 – April 01, 2012, 12:55:17 pm

Thanks for the write up and pics. Great job!

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #13 – April 02, 2012, 12:12:49 am

Quote from: oldmattb – March 31, 2012, 08:37:52 pm

Seen it many times. I love the idea that we are talking about processed foods and waste tanks in the same thread.

oldMattB

Have you ever checked the ingredients of Therford's Toilet Seal Lubricant and Conditioner? I know its silicone base formula but if I remember correctly, one of the main ingredients is a something along the line of coconut oil. But the Material Safety Data Sheet says you should not ingest it or rub your eyes. And it is not flammable, but does have a flash point.

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #14 – April 02, 2012, 10:47:58 am

Every other year, I remove, clean and lube with pure silicone grease my valves. On the U240, it is an easy 10 minute job as they are out in the open with no panels to remove.

Procedure:
Use jacks to lean coach toward drivers/valve side. Drain tanks and flush with fresh water.
Raise jacks.
Use jacks and lean coach toward passengers side (valves now on high side).

You will get only a drop or two when you remove the valves.

Brett

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #15 – April 02, 2012, 12:28:34 pm

This is a timely post. I was dumping this morning and noticed an occasional trikle of water coming through one of the chalked seams just over the lower panel. No smell so hoping it's just a water connection to the back of the hand wash.
We are in a campground so won't be able to tear into it until we are in a better spot. I will post my findings when I get in there.

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #16 – April 02, 2012, 12:37:22 pm

Dean, Pressurize the system using the water pump. Them check the pump, if it is cycling on and off you have a water leak. This is also a pump killer if pump is constantly cycling to keep pressure up, eventually It will get hot and either lock up or stop on overheat protection.
This is especially true of the Shurflo 5.7.
Gary B

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #17 – April 02, 2012, 12:46:12 pm

Thanks Gary, I will do that.

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #18 – April 02, 2012, 04:07:47 pm

Dean.... the black tank flush connects in back of the lower panel, just to the right of the faucet. It could produce an intermittent leak (i.e., only when it is pressurized). Mine plugged up last year and I had FOT fix it the last time we were at the factory. I think the actual flushing takes place from the other side of the black tank, but I'm not sure of that.

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #19 – April 02, 2012, 04:19:13 pm

You may be onto something George as I was flushing when I noticed the leak. Next dump I will look for the leak before hooking into the tank flush.

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #20 – April 02, 2012, 05:30:57 pm

Hi Gary,

I might add that if the water pump is asked to keep a reverse osmosis unit functioning, most models will cycle in low volume, short spurts, get hot and hit their thermal limit cut-off. Don't ask me how I know this. An accumulator is the usual solution to this problem though auxiliary pumps are available that can be used with RO systems.

So far with my RO, I'm I'm getting by quite nicely with an Aqua Tech pump model 55 ARV and a the larger accumulator.

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #21 – August 02, 2012, 08:44:33 pm

Here is an addendum to my March 31, 2012, 09:41:21 PM post. I had to redo the valve job because I did not follow Brett's advice to the letter and used some of what I thought was a "silicone" lubricant I had laying around on the valves (Super Lube which I know now is not silicone based).

He said to get silicone grease from Home Depot.... there is a difference. I found the grease in the plumbing section of an Ace Hardware here in Asheville. It has the consistency of honey. It was not with the other greases. I pulled the valves, which were working very hard, and found a thick greasy residue on everything. Removed that as best I could and used the newly purchased silicone grease for plumbing. The label says 80% silicone, but I am hoping that is good enough.

Found a better way of pulling the valves and rubber seals. If I remove all the bolts on the sewer valves, the whole pipe comes out (i.e., the 3" pipe connecting the two valves). This makes it a lot easier to remove the rubber seals, clean them and reassemble them. This also allows one to insert the lowest bolt on both valves without too much trouble before attaching the pipe. I put the bolts in from the back on these two since it is easier to attach the nut from the front.

More to follow.

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #22 – August 02, 2012, 09:41:04 pm

Quote from: George Hatfield – August 02, 2012, 08:44:33 pm

Here is an addendum to my March 31, 2012, 09:41:21 PM post.

Found a better way of pulling the valves and rubber seals. If I remove all the bolts on the sewer valves, the whole pipe comes out (i.e., the 3" pipe connecting the two valves). This makes it a lot easier to remove the rubber seals, clean them and reassemble them. This also allows one to insert the lowest bolt on both valves without too much trouble before attaching the pipe. I put the bolts in from the back on these two since it is easier to attach the nut from the front.

More to follow.

George I did the same thing when I pulled my valves. Those bottom bolts are a bugger but like you found that by removing the entire 3" manifold it was much easier to work on and reinstall. Also it allowed me to do a good cleaning of the bottom of the compartment. I installed an access door while I was at it.
The valves work much easier now and the access door allows me to get in there in case of a cable failure etc.

Dean

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #23 – August 02, 2012, 10:29:47 pm

You guys with the 2003 coaches must be lucky...on my 2002, all the 3" sewer pipes are plastic-welded together. No removal of the whole assembly. Not a fun job changing the electric valves.

Quote

Quote from: George Hatfield

Here is an addendum to my March 31, 2012, 09:41:21 PM post.

Found a better way of pulling the valves and rubber seals. If I remove all the bolts on the sewer valves, the whole pipe comes out (i.e., the 3" pipe connecting the two valves). This makes it a lot easier to remove the rubber seals, clean them and reassemble them. This also allows one to insert the lowest bolt on both valves without too much trouble before attaching the pipe. I put the bolts in from the back on these two since it is easier to attach the nut from the front.

More to follow.

George I did the same thing when I pulled my valves. Those bottom bolts are a bugger but like you found that by removing the entire 3" manifold it was much easier to work on and reinstall. Also it allowed me to do a good cleaning of the bottom of the compartment. I installed an access door while I was at it. The valves work much easier now and the access door allows me to get in there in case of a cable failure etc.

Dean

Re: Sewer valves

Reply #24 – August 07, 2012, 04:31:52 pm

I finally got everything tested and back together. Everything finally works great. Lots of potential leaks behind those fiberglass panels of the utility bay! To be on the safe side I added a water leak alarm I picked up from Harbor Freight for about $10...

Water Overflow Alarm

I learned about these from Barry Leavitt. I always learn something when I visit with this guy!! The alarm has about a 6 foot long cord to the detector so the former can be placed outside of the compartment (see below). It took some playing with the detector to see how it had to be mounted. There are two metal electrodes on the detector and water must contact both of them. So I removed the suction cup and laid it flat on the floor of the compartment with the electrodes down (secured with some tape).

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