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Why Bio Diesel?

October 12, 2012, 04:19:27 pm

I know this topic has been discussed before but just some info from my recent experiences. When we purchased our 2000 U295 there were algae deposits in our primary filter and the tank was emptied with all new filters installed. The diesel mechanic who does all my maintenance recommended Bio Cide with each fill which has been done along with an extra filter installed before the primary filter (this was after stop engine light sent me to a Cummins service center to find out it was algae in the primer pump before the filter). I continue to use the Bio Cide and have had no more red lamp alarms! The other suggestion from every diesel mechanic including Cummins service techs x5 was never use any type of Bio Diesel of whatever % (5 to 20).  Using Bio Diesel will cause this type of deposit and more frequent filter changes! My trip in the western US was very frustrating in regard to finding stations that didn't sell Bio Diesel. The staff at many stations didn't know what Bio fuel was and some pumps didn't have the stickers to identify this fuel (Murphy's and more). In some areas (TX is one) most all truck stops and other stations had 5-20% Bio. This type of fuel has a compatability problem with all diesels (from conversations with diesel techs). I was also told to never store a DP with any Bio Diesel in the tank and never use it if there was a choice (fuel lines, seals, lifter and injectors could be affected. What the heck to do if the feds are penalizing stations for not selling Bio Diesel! Will gladly pay more$ for petrodiesel if available. Info can be obtained on Cummins web site. Good Luck all!

                                  Josh

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Re: Why Bio Diesel?

Reply #1 – October 12, 2012, 06:12:38 pm

Josh, My experience with Bio Diesel was that it cleaned out all the GUNK in the system and clogged the filters up.  I would never use it except in a dire emergency. As far as I know I have always found non bio wherever I am.  We are 6k into a three month trip thru 17 States and I have yet to see bio at truck fuel stops that I have used.
Gary B

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Re: Why Bio Diesel?

Reply #2 – October 12, 2012, 06:52:37 pm

Gary,

    We traveled thru al, ms, la, tx, nm, co, az and back I10-I20 to Nacogdoches and called or in their face asked about Bio and were very frustrated with the lack of knowledge on what type of fuel was sold. This is everywhere from Muphy's to Flying-Js, Pilots etc. Just our experience but still very frustrating.

          Josh

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Re: Why Bio Diesel?

Reply #3 – October 12, 2012, 08:21:17 pm

Josh, thanks for the alert regarding biodiesel fuel. In our old coach, I expect we will do well to avoid using B20 biodiesel altogether and generally avoid B5.

On a fill a couple of months ago, we filled at a Valero near our home in Texas. My recollection is that the pump was labeled as "Up to 5% Biodiesel." We filled there because we could access the pumps and the price was the lowest of "name" brands in the area. I do not plan to fill there again. We put in about 75 gallons to top off the tank. We've driven a bit since then and not noticed any issues. We'll see what if we have any issues on our trip to Canton, TX, next week.

According to a Cummins brochure that I found: "Any Cummins diesel can be run safely on B5 biodiesel blend and be fully covered under its original warranty." http://cumminsengines.com/assets/pdf/4971136.pdf The cautions regarding B20 are much more stringent. Cummins does recommend more frequent changes of fuel filters when one starts using biodiesel. I infer that the "bio" will "clean" the fuel systems and the dislodged junk may clog the fuel filters. I also infer from other documents that B20 may actually damage "old" fuel delivery systems because of incompatibilities. http://dp-content.cummins.com/DWS/html/western_canada/General/en/public/attachments/downloads/B20BiodieselFAQJan2009.pdf

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Re: Why Bio Diesel?

Reply #4 – October 12, 2012, 09:26:09 pm

   J.D.

      You may want to talk with a Cummins service center regarding using Bio Diesel. My concern begin after talking with multiple service center service managers in many areas of the country. If there had been only one negative response concerning this type of fuel, my opinion may have been different. However, the negative replies from 100% of the Cummins service centers brought me to start this post. My concern is there is no way to know what fuels have been used in any of our coaches before we became the owners. The one positive opinion from these professionals is that the negative aspects of Bio Diesel can be lessoned over time with the use of only petrodiesel. The long haulers never let there rigs sit idle, thus decreasing the effect of this fuel. Hopefully in the future there will be an additive to correct this problem. Until then my search will be for the non Bio stations (many interesting stories).

            Josh

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Re: Why Bio Diesel?

Reply #5 – October 13, 2012, 07:26:16 pm

The mechanics I have spoken to also recommend against Bio-Diesel.
I have found one company that sells an additive for Bio-Diesel and other products. Their website is
Fuel Additives | Diesel Additives | Oil Additives | Bell Performance  They also have some information on Bio-Diesel.
I would assume there are others.

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Re: Why Bio Diesel?

Reply #6 – October 13, 2012, 11:58:29 pm

Lots of Biodiesel out there does not meet ASTM D6751-11b standards.  Almost all your diesel meets  ASTM D975 - 11b.  I prefer having my fuel meet ASTM standards.  Have messed around with veggie oil and converted a diesel to run on it.  We have lots to learn when it comes to Bio diesel. 

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Re: Why Bio Diesel?

Reply #7 – October 14, 2012, 09:26:40 am

I have run into biodiesel and have used it a bunch with no I'll affects. I do not look for it but if it is B5 I really have no issues.  I have put on about 200k miles with the stuff and no issues.

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Re: Why Bio Diesel?

Reply #8 – October 14, 2012, 10:57:44 am

   Most of my fuel is bought from Flying J, Murphy's, and any where else that are good buys.  I have run more than 80,000 miles with my FT with no fuel problems.. The tank is kept full during no travel times.  Filters are changed about every 30,000 miles.  After bio-diesel is run for a time it will reduce the ill effects of its difference. Seeking mechanical information from mechanics does not seem to work as well as seeking info from engineers.  Just saying.

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Re: Why Bio Diesel?

Reply #9 – October 14, 2012, 01:22:05 pm

Bio diesel material compatibility: per Cummins tech support.

Cummins filtration life of the engine parts (parts that are not replaced regularly such as fuel pumps, primers etc.
will preform with an acceptable diesel fuel up to (B20) only if the gaskets and seals are composed solely of a Viton or a Flurosilicone material. For information on the compatability of a specific part contact Cummins Filtration Technical Assistance. Also, google (Cummins Engines technical papers and links-Biodiesel FAQ). This site states that B5 is ok in most engines prior to 2002. However, at some truck stops etc. the Bio blend only is within a 5-20% range and no way to know if 5 or 20%. Some stations do specify 5% Bio but most only state 5-20% which doesn't help if I can only use 5% safely. Maybe someone has a clearer explanation of this situation regarding the older Cummins Dieslels.

                      Thanks,
                        Josh

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Re: Why Bio Diesel?

Reply #10 – October 14, 2012, 01:38:01 pm

Here is my post on this topic it is part of a long thread on the subject.  It contains Cummings recommendations along with some other information.

Keith

Biodiesel B5 & B20 and Cummins Engine info

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Re: Why Bio Diesel?

Reply #11 – October 14, 2012, 07:22:27 pm

This discussion has proved very informative. For those of us who have CAT motors, is there any difference in the effect of 5-20 biodiesel on the pre - 2002 CAT fuel parts?  I'm in an area where usually don't see 5-20 biodiesel.

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