ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

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ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

January 13, 2013, 02:46:09 pm

When did ULSD become mandatory and what effect, if any, on the older diesels such as our 1989 DD? Do I have to make up for the loss in lubricity? Do I have to worry about increased wear?

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #1 – January 13, 2013, 04:34:25 pm

Here is a document I found in response to your query. The GA ULSD Experience - Southeast Diesel Collaborative I would summarize as indicating that the only problems indicated were with seals and fuel lines. Some developed some leaks. I found consistent answers from several other documents that I found through searches on Google.

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #2 – January 13, 2013, 07:42:11 pm

well we must be lucky as in the trips south of the border here to Mexico I have never seen and leaks etc changing from ulsd to what we buy here, and engine sounds the same too.
John H

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #3 – January 14, 2013, 01:05:50 pm

Quote from: nitehawk – January 13, 2013, 02:46:09 pm

When did ULSD become mandatory and what effect, if any, on the older diesels such as our 1989 DD? Do I have to make up for the loss in lubricity? Do I have to worry about increased wear?

Here is one of the few studies of lubricity additives that I know of: http://www.johnfjensen.com/Diesel_fuel_additive_test.pdf. The U.S. standard for diesel fuel says a commercially available diesel fuel should produce a wear scar of no greater than 520 microns. The Engine Manufacturers Association had requested a standard of wear scar no greater than 460 microns, typical of the pre-ULSD fuels. Most experts agree that a 520 micron standard is adequate, but also that the lower the wear scar the better. In the test linked above, a very dry diesel fuel with a HFRR score of 636 microns was used.

Stanadyne Lubricity Lubricity Formula is easily available at many diesel shops and offers a 157 micron improvement to the fuel lubricity. It may help your injector pump and injectors last a bit longer. Untreated fuel (before additive is added by distributor) has a HFRR score of approximately 636 microns. The lower the HFRR score, the better, so you subtract the 157 micron improvement from the 636 micron standard.

The big problem with older diesels and the new ULSD is the reduced aromatic content. This has been hard on seals (IP pumps) and fuel lines. It causes them to dry out quicker than normal. Early on in the introduction of ULSD, they were many reported leaky fuel pumps.

Lubricity appears to be the only problem with the new ULSD fuels. They run much cleaner and show much less soot. With less soot in the oil pans, the engine oil should be working better and giving better protection to internal engine parts. If you do end up installing new injector fuel pumps, the seals will be made of newer, longer lasting, material. Even fuel lines today are holding up better because they are made of material that will last longer when exposed to ULSD. So once the old injector pump is wore out and replaced with a new one everything is fine. I would not rush out to replace the pump or lines unless you start having leaks. But I would consider running a lubricity improvement additive.

I mention Stanadyne as a lubricity improver because their main business is not fuel additives. Stanadyne is known around the world as a leading supplier of diesel fuel systems and components. And Stanadyne lubricity improver additive is approved by major diesel engine manufacturers including GM, Ford, VW, John Deere, Navistar, Caterpillar & AM General.

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #4 – January 14, 2013, 05:00:14 pm

I have been using the Amsoil one for the last 3 yrs and as I get it cheaper I find it seems to be good. My engine oil analysis of 2 months ago from caterpillar (I have 8.3 Cummins) was so good the tech said "do not change anything I am doing as this report is what everyone dreams of!!
The Amsoil oil has been in 2 yrs now going into the 3rd and the quality of oil they say is 97.3% of what it was new. No metals, water etc etc and very low soot. I will stick with believing in Amsoil.
John H

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #5 – January 15, 2013, 11:57:28 am

FWIW, I came into possession of something called OPTI LUBE additive. I use it because I did not have to buy it. It claims to do everything but wash your WS and air up your tires. The only thing I am sure of is that I no longer get a puff of smoke om throttle up ( or WOT as Brett says ). No other changes, no additional mileage etc.
Gary B

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #6 – January 15, 2013, 12:45:03 pm

Gary,

I recall a post a few years' ago in which a study compared the major brand additives for lubricity (reduction of engine wear). The top brand additive was Opti-lube. Can't remember the 2nd, but Schaeffer's was 3rd, out of perhaps 7 or 8 brands. I remember that because I couldn't find a source for Opti-lube, but was using Schaeffer's at the time (and still use it). Interestingly, one of the lowest in lubricity performance was Lucas Oil Additive.

I tried to find that old post, but was unsuccessful; perhaps Michelle can resurrect it.

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #7 – January 15, 2013, 01:09:03 pm

Quote from: Don Hay – January 15, 2013, 12:45:03 pm

I tried to find that old post, but was unsuccessful; perhaps Michelle can resurrect it.

Doing advanced search of the site for diesel additives, past 600 days, brought up this post. Is that the one you're thinking of?

ISM Engine Check, Required Service

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #8 – January 15, 2013, 01:14:55 pm

BTW, I just put a PDF of that additive study in the Files Library

The selected media item is not currently available.

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #9 – January 15, 2013, 01:27:33 pm

Michelle,

Yes, I think that was the article. I see that I forgot the first (REG SoyPower) but that Opti-Lube and its blends are next. Forgot FPPF, but there is Schaeffer's. Yup, Lucas was #11 and slightly worse than baseline.

Don't know how you do it Michelle, working your magic on retrieving these obscure posts.

Thanks again.

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #10 – January 15, 2013, 01:53:14 pm

FMCA magazine April 2008 article on ULSD states no additives are necessary.
The fuel is brought back to the mil speck at the refinery.

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #11 – January 15, 2013, 02:10:24 pm

Online Opti-Lub is available in summer or winter blend at: Diesel Fuel Lube - Sale on Gallons of Optilube . Shipping is only $4.75 per order so about the same as sales tax would be.

Anyone see it locally? Price?

Pierce

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #12 – January 15, 2013, 02:33:18 pm

I have been using Opti-lube for a year because of the previously mentioned report, I have not checked fuel consumption.

Opti-lube can only be purchased online at Opti-Lube Fuel Improver | Oil Fortifier | Block Grease for about $58/gallon delivered. It is not available any where else that I am aware of (not even Walmart). The order process is quick and easy.

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #13 – January 20, 2013, 05:15:06 pm

What this study does not take into account is the fact that diesel fuel we buy is supposedly mixed with up to 5% bio diesel. This would provide better lubricity than any of the additives, if it is, in fact, present in the fuel. Is it? Who knows.... 30 bucks extra per fill up on a 140 gallon tank for additive could be an expensive habit.

I'm still trying to figure out what to do with the gallon of Lucas additive that was in my coach when I bought it. Might be good for lighting bonfires as I burn off drought killed trees....

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #14 – January 21, 2013, 04:07:50 pm

Quote from: Chuck Pearson – January 20, 2013, 05:15:06 pm

What this study does not take into account is the fact that diesel fuel we buy is supposedly mixed with up to 5% bio diesel.

I believe that depends on what state you purchase your fuel in. Don't think that is a federal requirement.

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #15 – January 21, 2013, 08:38:32 pm

Yes, the requirement seems to be that total fuel sales from any particular refiner contain a percentage of bio, increasing each year. So, some stations could have it, some not, I'm guessing they all throw on the "up to 5% bio" stickers on the pumps. Lots of shenanigans being pulled by the big boys on bio diesel, lots of it seems to be imaginary.....trading fuel credits....who knows? But, if one out of every half dozen topups contain bio D, your overall percentage would provide the additional lubricity. Problem is, no way to know for sure.

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ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

January 13, 2013, 02:46:09 pm

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #1 – January 13, 2013, 04:34:25 pm

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #2 – January 13, 2013, 07:42:11 pm

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #3 – January 14, 2013, 01:05:50 pm

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #4 – January 14, 2013, 05:00:14 pm

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #5 – January 15, 2013, 11:57:28 am

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #6 – January 15, 2013, 12:45:03 pm

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #7 – January 15, 2013, 01:09:03 pm

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #8 – January 15, 2013, 01:14:55 pm

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #9 – January 15, 2013, 01:27:33 pm

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #10 – January 15, 2013, 01:53:14 pm

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #11 – January 15, 2013, 02:10:24 pm

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #12 – January 15, 2013, 02:33:18 pm

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #13 – January 20, 2013, 05:15:06 pm

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #14 – January 21, 2013, 04:07:50 pm

Re: ULSD in older Foretravel diesels?

Reply #15 – January 21, 2013, 08:38:32 pm

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