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No start!

Well, we are trying to leave the frigid north, but the engine won't even turn over. I just replaced the ignition solenoid about a month ago and it's working fine. Everything lights up, just no joy on anything happening when I turn the key. Maybe the starter or another solenoid in the engine bay?  It's about 26 and haven't turned it over in about 3-4 days.
Benjie, Ashley, Zoey, Fallon, and Lake
Round Rock, TX
In search of our next monster...

Re: No start!

Reply #1 –
Ok, I'm a dolt. No clue that the block heater prevented starting!  Glad it was an easy fix!
Benjie, Ashley, Zoey, Fallon, and Lake
Round Rock, TX
In search of our next monster...

Re: No start!

Reply #2 –
We regularly start with block heater turned on. ??? If temps are going to be below freezing and we plan to start in the morning, I turn on the block heater at bedtime and leave it on overnight. I start the engine, turn off block heater, and then disconnect shore power.
J D Stevens
1997 U295 CAI 36' Build #5085
2002 Subaru Outback
Motorcade 16869
Bellville, TX

Re: No start!

Reply #3 –
Weird. I tried turning the key prob 10 times with no joy. Turned the block heater off and started immediately. Guess it could have been a coincidence? Anyone else have any experience with this?

Best Regards,
Benjie

Benjie Zeller
(512) 587-4628
Benjie, Ashley, Zoey, Fallon, and Lake
Round Rock, TX
In search of our next monster...

Re: No start!

Reply #4 –
Hi Benjie,
  My 1997 U320 starts with the block heater turned on.
Raymond
Raymond & Babette Jordan
1997 U 320
1998 Ford Explorer XLT

Re: No start!

Reply #5 –
Hi Benjie,

Our '97, U295 starts with the block heater on as well.  Our routine is the same as JD's on a cold morning.  We also will turn the key on 3-4 times each time waiting till 'wait to start' goes off before we even try to start the engine.  Our understanding is that the glow plug then has been sufficiently warmed.  Actually we do the key off and on everytime we start the engine for the first time of the day, regardless of the weather...made it a habit.

Glad it started so that you can start your trip back to Texas...it's not exactly warm here, but better than where you are.

Tom and Shirley

Re: No start!

Reply #6 –
Hmmm, my routine was the same as well. Now I'm concerned it may have been coincidence. We'll be overnight in a Walmart lot tonight. Hope we don't run into the same issue.

Best Regards,
Benjie

Benjie Zeller
(512) 587-4628
Benjie, Ashley, Zoey, Fallon, and Lake
Round Rock, TX
In search of our next monster...

Re: No start!

Reply #7 –
On my '92 U-280, the block heater is independent of the starter/ignition. Often I forget to turn off the block heater until I have started the engine; then I turn the heater off.
Don Hay
'92 Grandvilla, U-280
The Hayfever Express
Build #4055
'97 GEO Tracker
Life is like licking honey off a thorn.

Re: No start!

Reply #8 –
Is the turning the key several times like turning on the headlights before starting? Kind of like clicking your heals three times to get to Kansas? I know the sometimes the circumstances dictate staying north longer than is wise but when someone pulled in here today having left Michegan three days ago and wanted sympathy for the ice, snow, cold and long days it just fell on deaf ears. Sorry, staying up north into the old is just not smart. The kids/grandkids know where you'll be for Thanksgiving and Christmas or whatever your beliefs and they are younger and can travel better sooooo!
Larry
1996 U295 36'
Build # 4805
Actually we sold it but just like to lurk

Re: No start!

Reply #9 –
While the two are not connected (12v vs 120V), the block heater may drop the 12V charging voltage as the charger will see less voltage if coach has a extension cord 120V supply.  Low voltage to the solenoid can effect operation. Try boost switch ON and the generator running to bring the 12V supply up a bit to high 13 volts before you try and crank it. Higher voltage will usually make a balky solenoid work.

That failing, pop your dash top up and check the connections on the solenoid. The solenoid can be jumped if necessary to check it's operation. Same solenoid model number as the "boost" solenoid. Check earlier posts for the part number/photos. About $50-60. Solid state available for under $200. Disconnect battery before pulling leads off.

Our block heater is 1000 watts and can overload a common extension cord, especially if it's a 100 footer. Have watched the voltage go down to 90 volts when it is switched on. Carry a HD 120V cord if you can't go with 220V/240V.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: No start!

Reply #10 –
I guess a simple loose wire and/or solenoid sticking.  So a healthy smack on the starter soleniod would be a good start along with checking the security of the wiring at starter.
FWIW
Dave M

Re: No start!

Reply #11 –
Pierce,

What solenoid are you referring to? My dash solenoid is in my kick panel and was replaced about a month ago. My boost and what I believe is the starter solenoid both reside in my rear wheel well. Is there another behind the instrument panel?

Best Regards,
Benjie

Benjie Zeller
(512) 587-4628
Benjie, Ashley, Zoey, Fallon, and Lake
Round Rock, TX
In search of our next monster...

Re: No start!

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Benjie Zeller –
Pierce,

What solenoid are you referring to? My dash solenoid is in my kick panel and was replaced about a month ago. My boost and what I believe is the starter solenoid both reside in my rear wheel well. Is there another behind the instrument panel?

Best Regards,
Benjie

Benjie Zeller
(512) 587-4628

Referring to the ignition solenoid. Mine is under the lift up dash, directly in front of the steering wheel. Yours may be in another spot. It should click when you turn the key to the on position. Check for loose connections if it was installed only a month ago. Solenoid ground too. The trigger and ground terminals (small) should be interchangeable on the mechanical versions.

If that is OK, give the starter solenoid a smack like Dave suggests. Sub-freezing temps bring out all the gremlins.

Manufacturers of the block heaters recommend turning the switch off before cranking as an air bubble can create a hot spot on the electrode and cause it to fail. Not sure I buy that but...

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: No start!

Reply #13 –
To EASILY determine if the Ignition Solenoid is not functioning (the one under the left side of the dash), just turn on the dash HVAC fan.  Since it only operates with the ignition on, it will tell you in an instant if the ignition solenoid is working.  Fan on= working.  Fan not on with ignition on= not working.

Brett
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: No start!

Reply #14 –
I would check at the starter to see if the starter solenoid is getting 12 volts from the start relay that is mounted on the frame behind your rear wheel. The frame mounted solenoid could be bad as I believe that you had been driving in freezing conditions with ice and the like. You can jump to the solenoid on the starter direct at the starter with a heavy jumper and have someone inside have the ignition turned on.
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins

Re: No start!

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Benjie Zeller –
Well, we are trying to leave the frigid north, but the engine won't even turn over. I just replaced the ignition solenoid about a month ago and it's working fine. Everything lights up, just no joy on anything happening when I turn the key. Maybe the starter or another solenoid in the engine bay?  It's about 26 and haven't turned it over in about 3-4 days.
Benjie,
    If you are getting no click which generally turns on some dash lights etc, then your ign sol is not getting activated. When you have the problem again, check for 12 v at one of the small terminals of the kick panel solonoid, officially known as the ignition solonoid. One term is gnd, the other is 12 v coming from the ign/key switch. If no 12 v there then it is not coming over from the ign sw. It could be crud in the ign sw or a brocken/intermittant wire from the ign sw. I replaced my ign sw (NAPA KS6608 about $30)and checked the old one. It appeared to provide intermittent contact across the batt and ign terminals. I occasionally get intermittant no start events and I suspect it is all related to the ign switch. The next time it happens I am going to hot wire a switch across the ign sol and take the key switch out of the loop. (disconnect red wire 103 at the ign sol) It could also be a bad ground wire at the ign sol and I will take that to a known good ground to eliminate that possibility.

Pierce is correct about the block heater regarding manufactures recommendation, it is in their literature and installation instructions. Their instruction is "do not activate the block heater with the engine running". If you don't "buy" their advice you will be buying a new block heater.
Hope this helps
good luck,
Rick
Rick

Re: No start!

Reply #16 –
Ign solenoid that i replaced in the kick panel has been working with all dash lights on. My guess is it is the starter solenoid. I may go ahead and replace both the boost and starter solenoid when we get home. They look a little worn. Has anyone had success with more robust solutions or should I order the standard replacement from FOT?

Best Regards,
Benjie

Benjie Zeller
(512) 587-4628
Benjie, Ashley, Zoey, Fallon, and Lake
Round Rock, TX
In search of our next monster...

Re: No start!

Reply #17 –
I had a similar problem also, finally used the start button at the engine.  That worked, and haven't had a problem since so don't know what the actual problem is/was.  I'd previously replaced the ignition solenoid too.
1996 U270
Build #4846
 

Re: No start!

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Benjie Zeller –
Ign solenoid that i replaced in the kick panel has been working with all dash lights on. My guess is it is the starter solenoid. I may go ahead and replace both the boost and starter solenoid when we get home. They look a little worn. Has anyone had success with more robust solutions or should I order the standard replacement from FOT?

Best Regards,

Benjie

Benjie Zeller
(512) 587-4628

Benjie,

Go downtown or online and get a Cole-Hersee boost/ignition solenoid as well as the starter solenoid. See my post: Two Scares In One Day

Try and get the latest as in the post. NAPA/Autozone will have both the 24213 Cole-Hersee and the starter solenoid but if you are not in a hurry, they are much less expensive online. Don't let the parts guy sell you old stock with a different part number. Solid state solutions are excellent, may last longer but cost more.

The new boost solenoid will have two small terminals as well as the two large ones. Trigger and ground small terminals are interchangeable. Some older solenoids may have three instead of four terminals as they don't have the ground connection and depend on a wire to one of the hold down bolts.

Try using the engine compartment starter button like Gayland suggested (with the ignition switch in the on position). Could give a clue to the problem.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)