Hot Water Question

Topic: Hot Water Question (Read 1040 times) previous topic - next topic

Hot Water Question

January 23, 2013, 07:26:41 pm

We really like the aqua hot on our U320 but it takes a long time for the hot water to get to the sink and lavatory. The propane heaters on our previous coaches were in the center of the coach but the aqua hot is at the front. In our sticks & bricks the hot water circulates but that would take extra plumbing and more energy on the coach. I'm wondering about a small point-of-use heater in a center bay in the hot water line.

Any comments?

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #1 – January 23, 2013, 07:59:50 pm

Rick,

You might do what Dick Ward and I have done - install a hot water saver. This utilizes a 12 volt

'bypass' water solenoid with nylon tubing to circulate some hot water back to the fresh water tank. So by pushing a momentary button to engage a latching electronic board and the solenoid, you can send the 'colder' hot water in the lines back to the fresh water tank for 20 seconds. This brings 'hot' hot water to your faucets much faster.

Clear as mud, huh! Well, actually it works quite well, especially for dry camping. Plans available for a case of beer.

Quote

We really like the aqua hot on our U320 but it takes a long time for the hot water to get to the sink and lavatory. > Any comments?

Rick & Rhonda
2002 U320 4020

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #2 – January 23, 2013, 08:13:14 pm

How bout some Double Deuce from Cattleman's in Oklahoma City?

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #3 – January 23, 2013, 08:27:10 pm

Rick,

Well, I do have my standards ...but if you'll deliver it. I'm basking in the Rio Grand Valley right now.

Quote

How bout some Double Deuce from Cattleman's in Oklahoma City?

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #4 – January 23, 2013, 08:58:18 pm

We have some friends down there in their sob who have been after us to come down so don't be surprised if we show up.

I read a post about a similar system. You just do it with off the shelf parts? Doesn't sound that complicated.

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #5 – January 23, 2013, 09:13:26 pm

Rick,

Yep, nothing special - Pex fittings, water solenoid and a delay board with relay.

Make some noise if you come this way in the next month - I'll be glad to take you up on your bribery offer.

<You just do it with off the shelf parts? Doesn't sound that complicated.>

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #6 – January 23, 2013, 09:16:23 pm

My first RV was a 1972 Revcon. It had a pushbutton switch in the bathroom, one push, and hot water was routed to the fresh water tank for some timed number of seconds, leaving actual hot water in the line ready to use. I've never seen one since.

Don't really need on in my Foretravel. The propane water heater is maybe five feet as the crow flies from the bathroom sink, could be 8 feet of water line involved, so I never have to run it for more than a couple of seconds before hot water arrives (a little longer in the kitchen)

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #7 – January 24, 2013, 09:28:11 pm

Are you turning the valve to full hot for hot water to arrive? You understand that you are displacing the water that is present in the pipe line. I have to wait but we are talking seconds for me it is not a big deal even if we are boon docking. A circ. system seems over kill given the distance from the heater to the shower. Just my opinion.

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #8 – January 24, 2013, 09:36:41 pm

Takes about 30 seconds. Hands are washed before the hot gets there. Same with rinsing the coffee pot or something in the kitchen. We never stay hooked up to water and sewer unlesss using the washer. I'm going to hook up the device described in the earlier posts.

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #9 – January 24, 2013, 10:14:54 pm

Rick,

You'll be a much happier camper with a water saver. I had easy access to the rear of the shower so that is where I put the solenoid. That makes the shower and lavatory have quick hot water and the kitchen sink a little slower. Others have put it elsewhere. It also might depend upon where you can run the return line back to the tank.

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #10 – January 26, 2013, 12:25:15 pm

I like this idea. There is an unused hot water port on the water manifold by the pump. A 12v solenoid valve there give me a very short and easy return run to the fresh water tank and hot water at the manifold. From there the longest run is at most 10 or 12 ft to the shower. But, 12 ft of 1/2" PEX tubing holds about 1/8 gallon of water or about 18 seconds at the pump capacity of 2.5 gal/min. Maybe more if the shower head or other faucets restrict flow. And I guess that assumes you turn the control to all hot, otherwise you are mixing cold with cold, all down the drain. We usually catch cold water in the kitchen sink waiting for hot because we will use it for dishes. So if access to water is limited this makes sense.

I wonder if there are ways to use less water in the toilet? Like the newer dual flush residential toilets do.

All of this is important if you are dry camping and have limited access to water or dump stations. Otherwise it is mostly a conmfort issue.

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #11 – January 26, 2013, 01:46:15 pm

Hi Roger,

Installed the solenoid on the Manobloc would still leave cool water in the fixture line until you run it. I reasoned putting the solenoid as close to the point of use is best so mine is at the back of the shower which was also very easy to access. We also have a RO kitchen faucet so I might put in another water saver solenoid there and then use the RO bypass water return line for

both uses.

The Microphor toilet has an electronic water level adjustment inside the tank. Before getting the water saver we used to save shower and sink water for flushing.

For longer dry camping we sometimes carry extra water in 5 gallon jugs in the shower stall and load it with an axillary pump into a gravity fill port.

I'd be quite interested to know how a Manabloc installation works out.

Quote

I like this idea. There is an unused hot water port on the water manifold by the pump. A 12v solenoid valve there give me a very short and easy return run to the fresh water tank and hot water at the manifold.

I wonder if there are ways to use less water in the toilet? Like the newer dual flush residential toilets do.

All of this is important if you are dry camping and have limited access to water or dump stations. Otherwise it is mostly a conmfort issue.

Roger

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #12 – January 26, 2013, 04:35:34 pm

I've thought about an ro system with the overflow going back to the fresh tank. Tired of carrying bottled water. Did you just splice into the fill line for that? I haven't looked behind the panels to see what the options are.

By the way, where did you get your time delay valve? I was going to pick up the parts at Grainger but didn't see an inexpensive 12v one on their website. They do have the solenoids.

Thanks

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #13 – January 26, 2013, 06:09:15 pm

Rick,

I used a delay timer from Carl's Electronics (sales@electronickits.com 866-664-0627) kit# CK1611. That may be overkill, but it should work well forever. Any momentary triggered timer with variable time output will work. I set mine at about 15 or 20 seconds. If you install only one solenoid you might parallel connect momentary switches in the kitchen and the bathroom. It's lots of fun pulling wires to the kitchen.

And the solenoid I used was a better one from Industrial Automation (704-987-9803 ) part # 42528 a 1/2" electric 12 volt brass solenoid for $34 plus $5 shipping. Be sure to get a normally closed type (opens 12 volts). However, I see there are many offered on EBay. The cheaper/plastic valve ones from China arrive quite fast these days. It seams all washing machine water valves are all plastic, so they should be of little risk for this project. Hope that isn't 'famous last words" statement.

I used 1/2" nylon/plastic flexible line to go back to the water tank. Just drilled a 1/2" (or actually slightly smaller) hole in the top of the tank and sealed it with caulk - PolySeam Seal because it gets harder.

Call me if you wish 308-440-5154.

Quote

I've thought about an ro system with the overflow going back to the fresh tank. Tired of carrying bottled water. Did you just splice into the fill line for that? I haven't looked behind the panels to see what the options are.

By the way, where did you get your time delay valve? I was going to pick up the parts at Grainger but didn't see an inexpensive 12v one on their website. They do have the solenoids.

Thanks

Rick & Rhonda

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #14 – January 26, 2013, 06:53:43 pm

Jim, Would it be simpler to just Tee into the inlet side of the water pump instead of having to get to the water tank ?
I have never dug into those compartments, so I have no idea, it just seems like a simple way to send water back to the tank.
Dave M

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #15 – January 26, 2013, 07:15:37 pm

Dave,

I suspect there are some big back pressure problems doing that. The water saver is trying to put water back in tank against the pump and a full tank of water.

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #16 – January 26, 2013, 07:38:29 pm

Possible, most likely the pump will be running and if not the water would push back into the tank without the pump being a restriction as I see it?
Thanks
Dave M

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #17 – January 26, 2013, 07:48:24 pm

Rick,

The RO input...I teed into the ice maker line under the sink and placed the whole unit there too. If you winterize or sanitize your water system, be sure to remove your RO unit and plug the teed line.

BTW, I still haven't figured out how to reach the instant hot drain plug easily for winterization. Pink antifreeze and instant hot units don't play well together either.

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #18 – January 26, 2013, 07:56:26 pm

I do think it might work to tee into the suction side of the water pump unless there is some sort of valve I don't know about between it and the tank. That would sure be easy to do. I've got lots of pex and a crimp tool.

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #19 – January 26, 2013, 08:06:07 pm

Dave,

It's certainly worth a try.

Quote

Possible, most likely the pump will be running and if not the water would push back into the tank without the pump being a restriction as I see it?

Thanks
Dave M

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #20 – January 26, 2013, 08:33:20 pm

There usually is more than one way to skin a cat. Ah, my apologies to all you cat owners.

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #21 – January 26, 2013, 08:43:54 pm

Quote from: Johnstons – January 26, 2013, 04:35:34 pm

I've thought about an ro system with the overflow going back to the fresh tank. Tired of carrying bottled water. Did you just splice into the fill line for that?

Thanks

I installed an RO drinking water system in our U280. The system resides in the closet where the clothes washer/dryer was. I plumbed the "salt" back into the fresh water tank via the fresh water tank overflow. Was careful where I spliced to make sure the water would flow back into the tank and not out the overflow.

Roland

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #22 – January 26, 2013, 09:19:36 pm

Great ideas, folks. My thought on putting the solenoid valve at the monoblock gets hot water to all of the hot feeds from there. Putting it at the shower does the same thing as well as another 10 or 12 ft to the shower but not to the kitchen or bathroom sink. You would have to put a solenoid valve at each sink and the shower, all controlled together and all feeding back to the fresh tank. Another interesting idea.

I think that feeding from the monoblock solenoid valve back to a T in the supply line to the pump should work. The pump needs to be on to circulate water. Any water it sucks in from the return line would go into the supply side and since the only open valve is the solenoid on the hot side of the monoblock it would get sent back to the water heater. I have to look to see if there is enough room. I've been in there before setting up connections for winterization and while it is tight, there should be enough room. PEX is pretty easy to work with and for this you wouldn't need any special tools. If this doesn't work it is easy enough to feed it right back to the fresh water tank.

Our coach is winterized and in the barn right now (MN) but I will give it a try and report back.

I've seen the water level adjustment for the toilet. I'll try turning the level down so that it just covers the flapper. We can always flush twice as required. Extra cold water waiting for hot always has a use if you save it. This is one obvious use.

We too, usually carry at least 5 gallons of spare water. It is a great idea.

Thanks for the feedback.

Roger

Re: Hot Water Question

Reply #23 – January 26, 2013, 10:27:25 pm

Roger,

Due to rather frequent leakage of the Microphor flapper seal, we've been using a low water level then add with the hose sprayer.

Actually my shower mounted solenoid does help the lavatory and sink, just not as effectively as for the shower - presumably because at least it is pulling hotter water from the Aqua Hot or water heater to the Manobloc. I'm sure purists will want to help all three fixtures equally.

I will be interested in how it works out for you.

Quote

Great ideas, folks. My thought on putting the solenoid valve at the monoblock gets hot water to all of the hot feeds from there. Putting it at the shower does the same thing as well as another 10 or 12 ft to the shower but not to the kitchen or bathroom sink. You would have to put a solenoid valve at each sink and the shower, all controlled together and all feeding back to the fresh tank. Another interesting idea.

I think that feeding from the monoblock solenoid valve back to a T in the supply line to the pump should work. The pump needs to be on to circulate water. Any water it sucks in from the return line would go into the supply side and since the only open valve is the solenoid on the hot side of the monoblock it would get sent back to the water heater. I have to look to see if there is enough room. I've been in there before setting up connections for winterization and while it is tight, there should be enough room. PEX is pretty easy to work with and for this you wouldn't need any special tools. If this doesn't work it is easy enough to feed it right back to the fresh water tank. >.

Quote

.

I've seen the water level adjustment for the toilet. I'll try turning the level down so that it just covers the flapper. We can always flush twice as required. Extra cold water waiting for hot always has a use if you save it. This is one obvious use.

We too, usually carry at least 5 gallons of spare water. It is a great idea. Roger

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