TV Upgrade DC vs AC

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TV Upgrade DC vs AC

June 23, 2013, 01:52:13 am

I am getting ready to purchase couple of TV's to replace old TV's in our 94U225 with LED flat; I don't have to get DC powered TV's correct I can get AC powered LED TV's? LED TV's don't consume much electricity & we will use them for the most part while connected to shore power. Thank you for your input.

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #1 – June 23, 2013, 06:14:53 am

I use my tv on the inverter too. Get a regular AC model. Foretravel likes Samsung now. They liked sony bravia for a while too. There reason are the strength of he mount not the picture.

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #2 – June 23, 2013, 11:39:05 am

LED TVs are just LCD TVs with LEDs on the back or side used to light the screen. Edge lighting TVs are thinner, lighter and weigh less. All brands are not created equal as edge lighting is a fairly difficult technology to get exactly right at the present time. Samsung is at the top of my list. LG and Sony also good. Other brands are OK but may have slight drawbacks that the average viewer may or may not notice. LG 3D TVS are priced well and have a big following.

LED TVs use 10 to 30 percent less electricity. Using a small inverter may or may not use less juice. Many inexpensive inverters are not as efficient as a modern RV house inverter. The less you draw down the house battery in a night of viewing, the longer the house batteries may last.

Plasma TVs have great blacks, are less expensive but use a lot more electricity, are not as sturdy in a RV environment with vibration, etc. They also don't do well at medium high altitudes and up.

With a newer TV, you can view a laptop, iPhone/Android, iPad or other tablets easily in full screen. You can also pull your digital camera card and view the photos on the TV. Nice!

Read all reviews before buying. All models even within a brand may perform differently. Don't pay list price!

Pierce

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #3 – June 23, 2013, 12:06:56 pm

We also have a U225 and decided to replace the flat screen TV that a previous owner had installed (which would only work on the old TV system anyway) with a modern HDTV. We bought a Sanyo 19" LED HDTV at Walmart for $135. I made a wood "plate" that fit over the hole where the old TV was installed and then fastened the mount for the new TV to that. The 19" gave us clearance for both upper cabinet doors to be opened; no other HDTV size would do that.

Inside the cabinet door above the co-pilot's seat is a DC cigarette lighter plug (at least on our U225). We found that a cheap "modified sine wave" (meaning NOT pure sine wave) inverter that plugged into this would easily power BOTH the new Sanyo HDTV and a new BluRay disk player (which also fit nicely into that co-pilot cabinet).

Typically the inverters that plug into cigarette lighter sockets are only good for up to about 180 watts. Using a "Kill-A-Watt" device (which you should buy... about $40 at Lowe's) I determined that both the TV and the player drew less than 50 watts together. They seem to have no issues running on the cheap (less than $30) inverters.

Recently I discovered a pure-sine inverter on Amazon for about $80 that plugs into a cigarette lighter socket and bought it with the idea that I'll use that for the TV system. I feel a bit better about pure-sine even though the modified-sine el cheapo inverters worked fine.

By the way: there are two more cigarette lighter sockets in the cockpit area: one is where you'd expect a lighter; the other is next to the co-pilot's left knee (when seated) and is mounted vertically up into the bottom of the dash area. We use el cheapo inverters in this area to charge smartphones, cameras, tablets, and whatever small devices need a charge. Many of these inverters now sport USB plugs, too. We now use the pure-sine $80 inverter for this, however.

In the bedroom I did things a bit differently. There was no TV at all in our back bedroom and no indication that any cabinet had been installed above the dresser. I bought a good wall mount that would allow us to move a smaller TV around for viewing and then stow it against the wall and installed it. We bought a 21" LED HDTV from Costco for about $160 and mounted it on that. Seems to work great. There is a cigarette lighter socket that was obviously intended for use by a TV and an el cheapo inverter also runs that TV just fine (although I recommend the pure-sine version).

We were going to run HDMI cable from the BluRay up front to the TV in back when I realized that I could just buy another BluRay player for the same price (or less) and a lot less effort. So that's the plan.

Two HDTVs, two BluRay players, two pure-sine inverters, and one articulated mount all for about $600.

One caveat. Smaller HDTVs - even the LED variety - tend to have slightly less resolution than their larger brethren. The 19" Sanyo is 720p (not 1080p). The 21" in the back bedroom is the full 1080p. I have to say, however, that I could not detect any difference with the smaller screen. The 19" is plenty big enough to watch in the front but not mind-blowing.

Front TV write-up is here: LED HDTV Flat Screen installation

Craig

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #4 – June 23, 2013, 12:44:18 pm

Am not into TV's, BUT my Sony LCD makes plenty heat, when dry camping, it's off, use the 19" Vizio LED in rear, the battery life is greatly improved. The Sony has great video pix, just hard on battery bank. YMMV
Dave

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #5 – June 23, 2013, 01:08:28 pm

Yes, the LED tvs generate almost no heat and are lots easier on the batteries. One other difference I've found, don't know if it' true of all tv's, but the LED tv can be viewed from a lot more angle than the LCD.

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #6 – June 23, 2013, 02:45:14 pm

Yes the LED has a larger viewing angle. One reason we swapped it last year.

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #7 – June 23, 2013, 02:50:14 pm

Couple of points: TVs max out at 720p with any satellite or over the air broadcast. Blu-rays are 1080p.

Coach coax won't carry a HD signal. You have to use a HDMI cable or use Apple's AppleTV (or other hi-res wireless) at the TV.

One lighter plug up front comes off coach batts, the other house. Have to be careful not draining engine battery if using a plugin inverter for a long time if lighter plug is off engine batt.

Pure sine wave inverters are good for laser printers and microwaves but TVs, etc. won't notice the difference. They sure do cut cooking time on a MW. Using a watt meter will tell how many watts the TV, sat receiver is using but won't tell the actual current used (inverter efficiency) from the batteries.

Almost impossible to tell the difference on a smaller (less than 32") screen 1080 or 720 TV between an upscaling DVD player and a Blu-ray player. All Blu-ray or regular DVD players are not created equal so it's really important to read the Amazon.com or other reviews on that exact model before buying.

Apple iPads won't display a movie in the correct aspect ratio on a HDTV (will display video with black areas surrounding the box). Android tablets will.

Older LCD TVs had a more narrow viewing angle and some also had a noticeable blue cast if viewed from the side.

Pierce

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #8 – June 23, 2013, 03:15:58 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – June 23, 2013, 02:50:14 pm

Apple iPads won't display a movie in the correct aspect ratio on a HDTV (will display video with black areas surrounding the box). Android tablets will.

Hmm... I think Linux has a distro for recording television but is probably more suitable for Stix-n-Brix than an RV. But the Apple TV would be an interesting solution. I noticed that lots of the new BluRay players feature "streaming" but when I researched it they only stream from a network to a TV; they don't stream a BluRay video out to WiFi. This, in my humble nerdlish opinion would be a perfect gadget for an RV. Watch a BluRay disk from anywhere in the coach!

I may have to research the Apple TV system and learn how it works.

Craig

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #9 – June 23, 2013, 07:20:18 pm

Pierce,
"Coach coax won't carry a HD signal." I believe best HD broadcasting comes via over the air antenna. Lot's of folks have misconceptions & think that they need a new antenna to receive OTA HD programing & good old antenna & good old coax should do just fine. I am about to instal 2 new LED TV's and use the old OTA antenna that is already on the Coach and it's original coax (I will report results.)
We all have many way's to watch TV these days. For us it will be prime time TV via OTA & via internet connection we will sling our dish network to our laptop and from laptop via HDMI to the new LED TV.

Now what i don't understand is why do i need to use cigaret lighters & inverters? Coach has 110V outlets & we will be hooked up to land/shore power for the most part ... or if we must we can use the generator. Am I missing something?

Also has anyone removed the old TV box from a U225 like Craig's U225 was removed by previous owner. I need to do that but not sure how should i approach it.

Thank you,
AL

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #10 – June 23, 2013, 10:01:05 pm

Quote from: propman – June 23, 2013, 07:20:18 pm

Now what i don't understand is why do i need to use cigaret lighters & inverters? Coach has 110V outlets & we will be hooked up to land/shore power for the most part ... or if we must we can use the generator. Am I missing something?

The nearest 120vac plug to the cockpit area is at the base of the cupboard/table assembly between the bucket chair and the recliner on the co-pilot's side. Rather than run an extension cord we just connect the tv to the DC system inside that upper cupboard above the co-pilot. We probably don't use RV parks with power as often as you do. So you can go ahead and plug it on in however you like.

Also, as long as the HD signal is in digital RF (radio frequency) form the coax will work (e.g.: from the antenna). However if it's analog RF form (like "channel 3" output) there is not enough bandwidth to carry the HD signals so the coax that is installed in most of the coaches won't do the job at the HDTV resolution. This is why we're all trying to figure out a good way to move the HDTV signals from the BluRay players to both the cockpit and bedroom HDTV receivers.

Craig

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #11 – June 23, 2013, 10:16:50 pm

Quote from: wa_desert_rat – June 23, 2013, 03:15:58 pm

Hmm... I think Linux has a distro for recording television but is probably more suitable for Stix-n-Brix than an RV.

We dumped DirecTV for MythTV about a year ago. There is a Linux distribution called MythBuntu, which is a Ubuntu variation tuned for MythTV. We watch it in the stick house. We don't watch TV in the coach.

We get lots of OTA TV out of Houston and some of it is worth watching. Schedules for MythTV are $25/year. I spend around $800 building the hardware from scratch.

You need to be pretty geeky to get it going. The most challenging part was getting an infrared remote control to work well. The best part is automatic commercial skip. You need to wait at least half way through a show before you start to watch.

It would be difficult to use in a coach unless you are in one place for a long time. It takes some tweaking to get the channel lines and order the correct schedules for your location.

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #12 – June 23, 2013, 10:32:19 pm

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – June 23, 2013, 10:16:50 pm

You need to be pretty geeky to get it going. The most challenging part was getting an infrared remote control to work well. The best part is automatic commercial skip. You need to wait at least half way through a show before you start to watch.

It would be difficult to use in a coach unless you are in one place for a long time. It takes some tweaking to get the channel lines and order the correct schedules for your location.

I'm about as geeky as they come; I switched to Linux in 1994 and have a dozen Linux servers spread around this county (and others) doing everything from email to VPNs. But we get exactly zero OTA tv here so the choices are cable, satellite, or Internet. We've been on DirecTV for a couple of years and before that Dish and before that... well, you know *that* game.

What I'm looking for is something that will stream HDTV across WiFi so it could be watched on a tablet, smartphone, or laptop in a coach.

This is difficult to find.

Craig

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #13 – June 23, 2013, 11:39:30 pm

chances are your TV's are 120V

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #14 – June 23, 2013, 11:49:57 pm

Thank you Craig ... You know I just picked up our U225 two weeks ago & between want things & it needs things $$$ adds up, so i was just trying to make sure I understand it before i buy some things such as inverters for TV's. Again thank you for help understanding. I just want to upgrade the TV's and while we do 3-4 day weekends with the MH I hope we enjoy the nature more and just be able to catch the evening news via OTA & fall a sleep with it. Previous owner did us a favor and installed a 120V outlet right under the dash (passenger side) so i should be able to use that for the front TV.
For what you are trying to do, from what I am aware of so far best thing out there is Dish Hooper with sling, check it out on Dish network web site.
I am too as geeky as they come & have many friends in the industry. Our home PC is Ubuntu; after my wife successfully got our last PC infected few years back and spending another Saturday fixing it, I said no more & switched to Ubuntu. It is wonderful. As far as MythTV & Linux home media server and all that .. I know .... but I guess because I do spend my time all day in Routers, switches, servers and all, i don't want to deal with them once I get home :-) so Dish network with it's DVR is doing the job for us more than enough.

Thank you again for helping me understand ... I am still learning our U225 and want to make sure it is going to be as ready as possible for the 4th of July weekend ... after all it is going to be our first out of town with it & want to make sure my wife is going to be happy ... you see it took some convincing to buy the 36" FT :-)

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #15 – June 24, 2013, 11:03:44 am

Quote from: wa_desert_rat – June 23, 2013, 10:32:19 pm

What I'm looking for is something that will stream HDTV across WiFi so it could be watched on a tablet, smartphone, or laptop in a coach.

MythTV will stream TV via WiFi to a MacBook very well. I don't know if it is HD, but it does look great on the small screen. The MythBuntu server is the "backend" with mysql, storage, and processing. It includes a "frontend." Frontends are available for Mac, Linux, and Windoze. They connect nicely to the backend over any relatively fast network. I don't think any frontends are available for IOS or Android.

I would expect the newer DVRs from Dish, DirecTV, Tivo, and cable to stream via WiFi. That would work in a coach. If there is a client for computers, pads, or smartphones, it could be a good alternative to having multiple traditional TVs in the coach. We still have analog TVs in the coach and no subscriptions to any services that will work in the coach.

If we put new TVs in the coach, they will be 120VAC units. If there is a DVR, it will have a dedicated small inverter. DVRs are just computers disguised as appliances. They work best when left on all the time. They don't play well with transitions from shore power, to generator, to inverter.

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #16 – June 24, 2013, 11:43:21 am

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – June 24, 2013, 11:03:44 am

MythTV will stream TV via WiFi to a MacBook very well. I don't know if it is HD, but it does look great on the small screen. The MythBuntu server is the "backend" with mysql, storage, and processing. It includes a "frontend." Frontends are available for Mac, Linux, and Windoze. They connect nicely to the backend over any relatively fast network. I don't think any frontends are available for IOS or Android.

Just on the cusp of leaving with mountain bikes for a few days on the trails in N. Idaho. Read your post and looked at Google's Play Store and, lo' and behold, there is a Mythtv frontend for Android! I have been planning to install a Linux system in the RV anyway... LOL. Maybe I can find a use for one of those slender Dell desktops that everyone has pretty much thrown away; I think I have two or three of those upstairs in the office.

I agree completely that having an inverter dedicated to a Linux server is important; 180 watts should do it, though. With a U225 there is no auto-start on the generator but since I'll have about 700 watts of solar (including two of the Unisolar flexible panels) that should take care of the ghost current issues.

We have a few years ahead before we need anything like this; 'til then it's mostly vacation-type trips.

Since I'm a Linux/Unix guy I think MythTV makes more sense. Unless someone comes up with a simpler system for $50.

Thanks for the input.

Craig

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #17 – June 24, 2013, 11:56:23 am

Here is a option to running HDMI cables ...

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011011&p_id=8087&seq=1&format=2

I am thinking of using one for a outside flat screen TV. You could set the TV anyplace, all you need is a power cord...

Stay Well

Ted

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #18 – June 24, 2013, 10:52:11 pm

I installed 2 Samsung LCD LED TV....32" (Smart TV) in front and 22" (Dumb TV!) in bedroom. Easy to do, took about 4 hours after I figured out how to do it. Well worth the time and expense savings. Installs are very solid, easy to remove with the turn of 2 "L" type screw brackets. Glad I did it!! Pics attached.

Re: TV Upgrade DC vs AC

Reply #19 – June 25, 2013, 08:26:09 am

Quote from: wa_desert_rat – June 24, 2013, 11:43:21 am

Since I'm a Linux/Unix guy I think MythTV makes more sense. Unless someone comes up with a simpler system for $50.

Thanks for the input.
Craig

Okeedokee, here it is, under 50 bucks as requested. In addition, programmable in Python, configurable as NAS, many other applications including media server using XBMC. This little computer runs on less than 5 watts of DC power. ARM based, uses a Linux distro, very well supported. I've been playing around with one along with the 25 buck HD camera. Many embedded applications, smart thermostats, engine monitors, available arduino shields for IO.......

Raspberry Pi • View topic - Simple GUIDE: *Fully* Automated TV/Movie

Chuck

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