Ride quality 36

Topic: Ride quality 36 (Read 1688 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #25 – July 02, 2013, 10:18:19 pm

Chris,
I can't insert your quote directly, because it is too far back, but you asked about 36' FT handling and then differences between 36' (and longer FT's) vs. other brands?:

We seriously evaluated and drove a lot of coaches before deciding upon our (new) 1998 FT purchase. We spent nearly six years in the research and decision making process. I never found any competitor that was as nimble and as stable as a FT, over all types of driving conditions. It was one of the most convincing selling features, once we finally became aware of FT.
There have been others like Liberty, Millennium, Marathon conversions and Newells, that we have driven over very long distances, that have been as stable, but they, like the HEAVY Bluebirds, are nowhere near as nimble and enthusiastic in driving manner and spirit.
There is a detectable increase in FT stability as one goes from a 36' to a 40', a 42' and a tag axle, but just detectable, not something that really sticks with you as a defining decision-maker unless you drive a long distance in one, get out of it and right into the other and then drive the same long distance for comparison.
In general terms ,though, I have found that "the goods and the bads" in tires, shocks, alignment, and tow components (in a FT coach handling equation) can make far more difference in a FT's handling behavior than the variance in length. Of course the majority of our traveling the past several years has been with a 24' trailer tagging along. And that makes our 36' coach into a 60'(+) combination, which, when fully loaded, seriously detracts from "nimble" but makes the overall package behave as though it were affixed to a smoooooth monorail.

Quote from: Chuck Pearson – July 01, 2013, 10:13:45 pm

I'm curious about these balancers. Do they have some other dynamic effect other than correcting out of balance tires? Wouldn't a good spin balance do the same thing?

Chuck,

Much of this thread has turned into a Centramatics discussion, so I'll comment on that as well:
I have had favorable indirect and direct experience with the Centramatics.

Indirectly, through my son and his trucking company, I have been watching their experience with Centramatics. They have over 1.4 million miles on their uses (New Peterbuilts, 80K (+) payloads), and he swears by them. He uses only Michelins, does not spin balance any tire and has only praise for the Centramatics. If he receives a tire that requires physical balancing weights (beyond the Centramatics) to come into balance, it goes back to the tire dealer to be exchanged for one that doesn't need weights.

He had been trying to get me to use Centramatics for years, but I didn't care for the looks of them (they are slightly visible through the Alcoa hand holes). I had always used Michelins with a balancing powder and either nitrogen fill or CO2 fill experiencing no balancing problems. I did get tired of having to be constantly, EXTRA careful to not introduce any moisture into the tires, either during mounting or in airing up during use (like out of an unknown quality air source in a service station). Small amounts of moisture cause powders to clump and become less or even largely ineffective.

I succumbed to my son's urging when I changed tires in July of 2011. I was amazed at the silky smoothness of the Centramatics, at all speeds and under all driving conditions. I always attributed early morning roughness to the tires taking a slight "set" while parked, then going through a "warming up period", then flexing into a "driving rhythm" that the tires ultimately came into balance with through the balancing powders. Some of that may be true, but with the Centramatics, the tires seem to be in silky smooth balance under all speeds and conditions. There is no "morning warm up" any more. And, Chuck, unlike a loaded or unloaded "spin balanced tire", it is in balance at all road speeds, not just at the RPM (and load) at which it was balanced. Modern spin balance machines average over a range of rotational speeds and recommend a compromise weight that improves the balance the most throughout the target range. Centramatics achieve true, full-rotating-assembly-balance, at all RPM over some minimum speed which is around 20 MPH, or so, as I recall.

I have about 21K on the Centramatics now (out of about 186K) on the coach. I can't foresee that I would ever go back to powders or weight balancing.

There is one caveat. If a tire is, for whatever reason, significantly out of balance, the Centramatics have only a certain range of compensation. Centramatics will make good tires OUTSTANDING. But they cannot always make a marginal tire good or even acceptable, without some physical weights to bring it into range.
Hope this is of some value to you.

Neal
Neal

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #26 – July 02, 2013, 11:48:26 pm

I am unfamiliar with Centramatics prior to this thread. Any pictures showing what they look like and what kind of $$$$ are you talking?

Larry

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #27 – July 03, 2013, 01:11:11 am

Larry,

They are in TX in 5345 S I 35 Alvarado, TX (http://centramatic.com/Home.aspx) I spoke to them for my FT today for front installed at their location $199 & for back $215. I am considering to get them installed after 4th of July weekend, after I drive it for about 700 mil.

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #28 – July 03, 2013, 06:41:05 am

How do you detect severe out of balance on rear or tag tires? What are the time and cost implications of having to correct a bad tire down the road?

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #29 – July 03, 2013, 05:31:52 pm

Thanks Al, I will keep it on file when I get the rig. Definitely sounds like a good item to have.

Larry

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #30 – July 03, 2013, 11:31:31 pm

When I check on getting the Centramatics for my 1993 U225, it was a no go. Centramatics do not fit the U225 wedge brakes drums.

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #31 – July 03, 2013, 11:38:56 pm

Quote from: ohsonew – July 02, 2013, 11:48:26 pm

...........................I am unfamiliar with Centramatics prior to this thread. Any pictures showing what they look like and what kind of $$$$ are you talking?..................................

Larry,
Attached are couple of pictures taken today (don't mind the dirt -- coach needs a bath badly). The Centramatics "GOOD" price used to be $225/axle, (2) units/axle, click on the following link for more info and part #'s:

New Michelin tires

I'm not sure what the best price on them is right now.

Not necessarily for everyone, but I've found them to be a good addition (simple, trouble free, and they have saved me time and money already).

Neal

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #32 – July 04, 2013, 12:00:46 am

Quote from: Dave and Dolly Cobb – July 03, 2013, 11:31:31 pm

When I check on getting the Centramatics for my 1993 U225, it was a no go. Centramatics do not fit the U225 wedge brakes drums.

And I thought the problem would be the 6 bolt wheels. Never considered the brake drums!

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #33 – July 04, 2013, 02:00:34 am

Centramatic over the phone they asked model name, year, tire size, and brake .. drum, then she told me that they have it for 94/U225 with 9/22.5 ... I am not sure if I will get it though. I picked up our Coach this afternoon from the shop and it drives quite nice, probably won't need them. Shop (friend) I have been getting work done on my Vehicles for sometime now did a great job on the front end with sumo shocks, new Toyo 265/75/22.5, steering damper & front alignment. After we get back from 700 mil trip I will add the sumo shocks on the back too.

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #34 – July 04, 2013, 07:24:18 am

Neal,

Thanks for the pics. It now makes more sense to me. I like the idea and will add them to my add list.

Larry

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #35 – July 04, 2013, 11:39:54 pm

Quote from: PatC – July 04, 2013, 12:00:46 am

And I thought the problem would be the 6 bolt wheels. Never considered the brake drums!

Bolt number was something that they could deal with but not the shape of the drums. We had the coach in their shop for service. One of the main guys looked and said he did not think they could install them. Would be nice if they have changed their minds since Jan. 2012.

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Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #25 – July 02, 2013, 10:18:19 pm

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #26 – July 02, 2013, 11:48:26 pm

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #27 – July 03, 2013, 01:11:11 am

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #28 – July 03, 2013, 06:41:05 am

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #29 – July 03, 2013, 05:31:52 pm

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #30 – July 03, 2013, 11:31:31 pm

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #31 – July 03, 2013, 11:38:56 pm

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #32 – July 04, 2013, 12:00:46 am

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #33 – July 04, 2013, 02:00:34 am

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #34 – July 04, 2013, 07:24:18 am

Re: Ride quality 36

Reply #35 – July 04, 2013, 11:39:54 pm

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