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Topic: Retrofit Aquahot into older coach? (Read 916 times) previous topic - next topic

Retrofit Aquahot into older coach?

Has anybody upgraded an older coach to an Aquahot system? Thinking about it and wondering if the benefits justify the expense.
Fred Lewers
1984 FTX ORED
Build #2423
1991 Ford Taurus SHO
17 1/2  trillion dollars....  TANSTAAFL....  The party's winding down folks!

Re: Retrofit Aquahot into older coach?

Reply #1 –
Some discussion of the possibility here (although related to a newer coach than yours)

Can you retrofit a 2005 U270 with LP furnace to an AquaHot?
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Retrofit Aquahot into older coach?

Reply #2 –
It would be hard to find a space large enough for an aqua hot on an ored.
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins

Re: Retrofit Aquahot into older coach?

Reply #3 –
Why would you want the AquaHot?

Re: Retrofit Aquahot into older coach?

Reply #4 –
I think the simple answer is, if you never had it, you have no idea, if you had it, you want another.  At least that is my view, after the LP Gas furnace experience in the MCI, now having the A H,  no desire to go back to gas hot air.
dave M

Re: Retrofit Aquahot into older coach?

Reply #5 –
If you just want to heat air with diesel, a  Toyo OM-22 would easily heat your Foretravel. We have one for the house and has been trouble free for over 10 years. The heater is small and makes little noise. Direct vent so only one small hole in the outside with hot exhaust going out the center of the pipe and combustion air in to the heater on the next layer. The exhaust is not hot enough to catch anything on fire even if against it. Needs AC power but any small inverter will run it. OM 22 Toyo Stoves

Heat Rating:

High - 22,000 BTU/h
Med - 15,000 BTU/h
Low - 8,000 BTU/H

Fuel Consumption:

High - 0.144 gal./h
Med - 0.097 gal./h
Low - 0.050 gal./h

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Retrofit Aquahot into older coach?

Reply #6 –
Actually my primary objective is a reeeaallly long hot shower.  Secondary benefit is the safety aspect of hot water heat. Get a leak in the heat exchanger of a propane forced air furnace & you can get co poisening. Hot water heat adds another medium to separate the combustion gases. Also, hot water heat feels warmer than a furnace but not as warm & cozy as a wood stove.  But the best thrill is showing off a vintage coach with modern amenities. Its an old school thing I have going on...  8)
Fred Lewers
1984 FTX ORED
Build #2423
1991 Ford Taurus SHO
17 1/2  trillion dollars....  TANSTAAFL....  The party's winding down folks!

Re: Retrofit Aquahot into older coach?

Reply #7 –
Fred, sometimes I like to play that game, too. If I had a large amount of money, what would I do to this coach? AquaHot, generator in the nose (rather than on the side), more modern engine/transmission, solar, you name it. As someone said earlier, all it takes in money. At some point, though, one starts looking at reality and thinking that maybe instead of spending all that money on a 20- or 30-year-old coach it would be smarter to put it toward a newer coach that already has the new toys in it. Of course, putting the new stuff in an old coach just to impress people can also be fun. There are quite a few Airstreamers that have trailers from the 60's that have been completely redone to current standards. Since the registration still reads the original date, the taxes are pretty low. I suspect that it would take several decades for the savings in property taxes to pay for the cost of the upgrades, though.

Re: Retrofit Aquahot into older coach?

Reply #8 –
Quote from: fredlewers –
Actually my primary objective is a reeeaallly long hot shower.  Secondary benefit is the safety aspect of hot water heat. Get a leak in the heat exchanger of a propane forced air furnace & you can get co poisening. Hot water heat adds another medium to separate the combustion gases. Also, hot water heat feels warmer than a furnace but not as warm & cozy as a wood stove.  But the best thrill is showing off a vintage coach with modern amenities. Its an old school thing I have going on...  8)

How about mixing old school with the modern? A tankless RV water heater will provide endless hot showers (if you have endless water). You could also remove the propane furnace and install heat exchangers, a 12V hot water pump plus low speed 12V fan and enjoy interior heat without most of the noise using the tankless. Several brands making tankless water heaters including Atwood, the brand most of our models come with. See specs, prices and reviews at: Amazon.com: Atwood 90205 Water Heater: Automotive

I owned a house in Santa Fe with a small boiler in the garage and copper pipes throughout the cement slab. It was noiseless, worked on 3 zones and was very efficient. Europe uses a lot of diesel fired boilers to do the same thing in homes. The older homes use either a baseboard heat exchanger or conventional looking wall radiator.
 
Pierce
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Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Retrofit Aquahot into older coach?

Reply #9 –
David,

Agree with you about being fun to take an older vehicle and restore it or retrofit all the modern stuff. We went to a big car show in Grass Valley on Saturday where hundreds of owners had opted to restore rather than buy new. Paint jobs that the factory could only dream about and engines that were kept original or at the other end of the scale, had been replaced with the latest ECU technology. Good feeling to have done something trick and have the crowd appreciate it. Can never remember a big check or payday but the little feel good accomplishments are what make life fun.

Yes, sure would like to have the generator in the nose or at least a spare tire and when stuck on a steep grade between gears on the four speed, dream of a six speed or even better, an Eaton Road Ranger 9 speed. Guess that's why we go to sleep reading about the latest RV stuff or Harbor Freight catalog.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Retrofit Aquahot into older coach?

Reply #10 –
Well I didn't know Atwood made a tanless water heater. I had hot water heat up north & I loved it. Intimately familiar with boilers & furnaces & the benefits of a two line system & priming & bleeding air pockets ... Yup! I was thinking tankless for hot water & hot water for heat running off a few heat exchangers. Pull the existing furnaces & buy or build a couple of heat exchangers & tie into existing ductwork for airflow. Hybridize the heating side.  Thats down the road though. Still in the visionary phase of the project. What are you running for hot water & heat Pierce?
Fred Lewers
1984 FTX ORED
Build #2423
1991 Ford Taurus SHO
17 1/2  trillion dollars....  TANSTAAFL....  The party's winding down folks!

Re: Retrofit Aquahot into older coach?

Reply #11 –
 Guess that's why we go to sleep reading about the latest RV stuff or Harbor Freight catalog.

LOL,
Yeah... the tools & toys part of retrofitting! I need that tool to finish those two projects. Now I need a bigger trailer for all the other stuff! So much for downsizing...
Fred Lewers
1984 FTX ORED
Build #2423
1991 Ford Taurus SHO
17 1/2  trillion dollars....  TANSTAAFL....  The party's winding down folks!

Re: Retrofit Aquahot into older coach?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: fredlewers –
Well I didn't know Atwood made a tanless water heater. I had hot water heat up north & I loved it. Intimately familiar with boilers & furnaces & the benefits of a two line system & priming & bleeding air pockets ... Yup! I was thinking tankless for hot water & hot water for heat running off a few heat exchangers. Pull the existing furnaces & buy or build a couple of heat exchangers & tie into existing ductwork for airflow. Hybridize the heating side.  Thats down the road though. Still in the visionary phase of the project. What are you running for hot water & heat Pierce?

Fred,

Still in the visionary phase also. Have the solar done so turning my attention to under nose front spare tire mount and a paint job. I absolutely hate the noise from the rear heater at night plus it really draws a lot of juice. Was thinking of adding another gas fired water heater to plumb into heat exchangers in the rear and in the main salon. (I salvaged a big boiler and copper/aluminum finned heat exchangers for each room in our house when I built it. The old style diesel boiler used just over 2 gallons per hour and when the price of diesel went way up, I converted to the Toyo OM-22.) For the U300, I had envisioned the second propane water heater (probably mounted on the rear driver's side as there is a lot of room there) running a antifreeze mix and going to the interior heat exchangers (salvaged from our house) but also with valves so I could send the coolant to the engine block for cold weather starts. A 12V water pump would heat the engine quickly and not require the generator or AC power to for the block heater (the OEM block heater is in a terrible location and takes a LONG time to do it's job). Don't really think this would be difficult, just require a lot of planning to look factory. Low speed 12V fan would not use much juice and not make much noise either in the vehicle.

We also have a unvented propane heater to heat the interior but have to be very careful with CO (added a second CO detector) and use this as a backup in case of heater failure. We never run it at night. 

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Retrofit Aquahot into older coach?

Reply #13 –
I like your idea of plumbing the engine in for block heater. What about setting it up to provide heat from the engine while under way? Vinyl cover for the radiator would drive temp up enough to work. A few solenoid valves & switches to redirect flow if necessary...
Fred Lewers
1984 FTX ORED
Build #2423
1991 Ford Taurus SHO
17 1/2  trillion dollars....  TANSTAAFL....  The party's winding down folks!
 

Re: Retrofit Aquahot into older coach?

Reply #14 –
Fred,

Probably could just redirect the heater hose from the back up into a several stacked air to coolant heat exchangers and then back to the front dash heater. There is already a booster pump to help the coolant along. My heat exchangers have probably 25 fins per inch with a 3/4" copper pipe running through the middle of them. Probably about 4"x4". I stacked them to make a radiator at home and they worked well. I have about 100' of them so plenty to experiment with. Yes, solenoids would be the way to go to redirect the flow. Cooling system pressure is around 14 lbs so should not be an issue with the water heater. Mildly difficult would be building a frame to chassis to hold the heater securely and have a clean appearance like on the other side water heater with the cover. Not much plumbing as the old heater location has gas to it and would be pretty close. Our Detroit cylinder heads and block have several removable plugs to allow recirculation of warm water from one side to the other.

Bringing the engine part way to operating temp would be great at high altitude fall/winter/spring spots like Yellowstone. I hate worrying about starting the next morning, running the generator for at least an hour and then blowing gray/black smoke over the tent campers next to us. Had one guy pound on our door because of the generator smell in the morning. A nice clean start with only a short time to build air would be perfect. All of our mechanical 2 cycle Detroits started instantly and without smoke in sea level cold weather. No idea why these ECU models don't.

There are commercial propane fired block heaters with pumps but are about $1000 or more.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)