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No power in the coach

I had my 98 U 270 plugged in on a 110 outlet. I was away for 3 weeks.When I returned there was no power in the coach.I check the disconnect switch by the door (no power). I have power on the engine side but nothing on the house side. Any ideas?
Paul R.
1998 U270 36'

Re: No power in the coach

Reply #1 –
Do any of the 120 VAC appliances work?

If not, verify that you DO have 120 VAC to the coach.

By saying that the switch by the door does not work says that the house batteries are dead.  So, either the 120 VAC to the coach is off or the inverter/charger is not working.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: No power in the coach

Reply #2 –
On my 98, the door 12 volt "salesman" switch has a re-settable circuit breaker.  Mine is located in the driver side bay behind a white removable cover.  The side of the breaker has a tiny black button that can be touched with a small tool.

Hopefully this is the simple problem solution.
Dave Cobb
Buckhorn Lake Resort The Club, #6202, Kerrville TX
check the map.  I do rent it out when I am traveling!
2001, U320, 36' #5887, in Kerrville, FT Club #17006, (7/23 to present)
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L, Summit, white
EX: 98 U295, 36' #5219, (mid door), (4/13-10/23)
EX: 93 U225, 36' (4/11 to 4/13)

Re: No power in the coach

Reply #3 –
Can I drive the coach to where I have 50amps available? I removed the 50 amp receptacle on the drivers side of the coach and noticed that the black wire connection had been hot .Is it possible the melting on the black wire connection could be causing the power not getting up to the transfer switch contacts?
Paul R.
1998 U270 36'

Re: No power in the coach

Reply #4 –
Should be no problem driving the coach if the engine side DC is OK (if it starts), but if the coach batteries are totally flat, the engine alternator will be trying to charge them, and may be overloaded (can overheat.)  Best to start the generator and then see if your inverter charger will put a charge into the coach batteries.  If your generator doesn't turn over, try flipping the boost switch while starting (don't leave it on)  (I forget whether the generator starter gets power from coach or engine batteries.[just checked schematic - generator starter power comes from the coach batteries])

Do you perhaps have a power management system (e.g. Progressive EMS) wired in between the shore power plug and the transfer switch?  That might have shut down your shore power connection if the contact got flakey.

 
Dave and Nancy
1999/2013 U270 36' Xtreme
Motorcade # 16774
2013 Subaru Outback
KD0NIM

Re: No power in the coach

Reply #5 –
Paul R, the melted wire is a problem indicating that something over heated,and or a loose connection. As others have said verify you have 120V at the plug, then check to see if any 120V in the coach. If not, and you are comfortable working with electricity pretty easy to pull the main circuit breaker panel cover and check for voltage coming into the panel Black and Red wires are hot. If no voltage at the panel check and see if you have voltage on both sides of the transfer switch. You didn't say if the 110V plug was 15/20A regular outlet or a 30A, might be a tripped breaker in the house.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: No power in the coach

Reply #6 –
The generator is no different than shore power because it energizes the same AC circuits and runs the same charger. You need to fix the 120 volt AC power problem if that's where the problem is. I charge my coach batteries with my alternator frequently. The only thing I notice is I have to tighten the alternator belts once in a while after a lot of battery charging, which is a super easy job that only takes a moment to do. I check the alternator belts as part of my preflight inspection each day before I start the engine. I've been charging my batteries from the alternator for a week now and I tightened the belts slightly for the first time yesterday just to give you an example of how minor this is. My alternator has not overheated. If it does I'll get rid of it and install an AC Delco alternator because I'm not impressed with the Leece Neville that I have currently. My coach's alternator produces a higher voltage and over twice the amperage the charger does, so it charges the coach batteries with only about an hour or so of driving per day. The generator takes half a day to charge the coach batteries by comparison, and is a total waste of fuel if you have someplace you need to be driving towards anyway.
Scott Cook
1991 U300 36' 6V92TA
Old Town Penobscot 16
1984 Honda VF1100C (V65 Magna)

Re: No power in the coach

Reply #7 –
Quote from: RRadio –
The generator is no different than shore power because it energizes the same AC circuits and runs the same charger. You need to fix the 120 volt AC power problem if that's where the problem is. I charge my coach batteries with my alternator frequently. The only thing I notice is I have to tighten the alternator belts once in a while after a lot of battery charging, which is a super easy job that only takes a moment to do. I check the alternator belts as part of my preflight inspection each day before I start the engine. I've been charging my batteries from the alternator for a week now and I tightened the belts slightly for the first time yesterday just to give you an example of how minor this is. My alternator has not overheated. If it does I'll get rid of it and install an AC Delco alternator because I'm not impressed with the Leece Neville that I have currently. My coach's alternator produces a higher voltage and over twice the amperage the charger does, so it charges the coach batteries with only about an hour or so of driving per day. The generator takes half a day to charge the coach batteries by comparison, and is a total waste of fuel if you have someplace you need to be driving towards anyway.

I understand there is a max charge input to each specific type battery.  20% of its rated Amp hour capacity per hour?

New inverter/chargers have battery temperature hookups to further control the charge rate which obviously the alternator will not have.

The posts here have mentioned a higher powered alternator can exceed the batteries design input level and may damage them. 

Someone posted here that he removed his 250 amp alternator because of it I think.

The 160 amp I think comes in mine was sized for my three battery setup and three engine batteries charge input safe limit.

More may not be better it seems.

My 97 link 2000 heart interface had a optional version that changed the alternator input to the same three stage as the inverter/charger already does.

The heart has a max charge rate of 130 amps which matches my use of three MK 8G8D's at 675 amp hours listed capacity.  The batteries seem to have slightly more than the rated capacity.

I lined up a magna 2012 with the battery temp connection and auto start to keep the batteries as close to correct for hopefully longer life.

From what little I know the alternator is harder on the batteries recharging than a smart charger.  Obviously we are normally all recharging the batteries harder on the alternator but the engine batteries are also being charged through the isolator so maybe the higher input is somewhat smoothed out from charging both banks?

I am trying to get ten years use out of the mk's or more. 10% discharging shows a 5k cycle service life.  50% shows a 1k service life.

I try to not normally go beyond 30% discharge and stop the gen when the charger stops its bulk charging.  Which is about 10% discharge.  Lots of gen run time to get that last 10% versus the 30-10% bulk charge rate.  Takes a couple of days for my single solar to charge that last 10% normally.

I only have one 130 watt solar and its controller so far which slowly recharges the house and engine batteries.  Not for in a hurry charging. 
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: No power in the coach

Reply #8 –
His batteries are completely dead right now, which is very bad for them. Starting the genset won't do anything to charge the batteries because it energizes the exact same 120 volt AC circuits and charger that the shore power uses. Start up the coach and charge the batteries with the alternator right away or the batteries will be permanently damaged. Check the water in each cell and fill each of them to the proper level with distilled water before charging the batteries. That's if they're ordinary lead acid wet cell batteries. After the batteries are charged disconnect them and fix the AC power problem, if there is one. When the AC power problem is fixed and the charger is working again, reconnect the batteries. From that point it may make sense to start the genset to charge the batteries, but for now the genset won't do anything except waste fuel and run up hours on its little engine.

If the batteries are ruined don't despair too much. They'll only cost a little over $300 for a pair of 8Ds if you shop around. Again, that's if they're ordinary lead acid wet cell batteries. If they're expensive AGM batteries and they're ruined you'll have to cry for a few days until you get the courage to price some new ones.

It's possible one of the cells in either battery has shorted out and drained both batteries. The two coach batteries are connected in parallel on my coach. If two of the plates inside any cell on either battery touch each other they will short out and kill both batteries. After driving an hour or so, disconnect the coach batteries and test each battery individually with a voltmeter and you'll be able to tell if one of the batteries has a shorted cell. If both batteries are still dead after driving an hour, connect one battery and drive another hour or so, then test that one to see if it charged. If not, disconnect that battery, connect the other battery, and drive another hour or so before testing that battery. If you find one battery is bad, get rid of it and reconnect only the good battery.

You could also buy a heavy duty battery charger designed for big rig diesel truck batteries if you don't feel like driving a long time to charge your batteries.

I've never had my 160 amp Leece Neville overcharge my batteries or boil off water as far as I know. I check the water every month and top it off if needed. I'd notice if there was an unusual amount of water used. The only time the batteries have run out of water was when a cell shorted out and boiled off a lot of water, but the batteries were probably ruined already from the short circuit... (sigh)
Scott Cook
1991 U300 36' 6V92TA
Old Town Penobscot 16
1984 Honda VF1100C (V65 Magna)

Re: No power in the coach

Reply #9 –
A forum member asked me how to check the batteries and this was my reply. Should there be a separate thread for battery checking if there isn't one already? What I wrote here is for ordinary lead acid wet cell batteries. Obviously you won't need to do this with AGM or gel cell batteries.

I check the cells in daylight (duh) and use an inspection mirror with a long handle. You can get one at any auto parts store or anyplace that sells tools. They even have inspection mirrors with a light built in. Pop off all the cell caps and look down in there with the inspection mirror. On most batteries there's a little bit of plastic that protrudes down into the cell to cause a curve in the surface tension of the water when the water level is high enough to touch the plastic. That's what you're looking for. If you can see that curve around the edges of the water you've got enough water in that particular cell. Obviously you have to check each individual cell in each battery because they're all separate. If any cell doesn't have the curve to the water you should add a little bit of distilled water to that cell until the level is high enough to cause the water to curve around the edges. Don't overfill the cell. Use only distilled water in the battery. I use a clean paper Dixie cup to pour a little bit of distilled water in. Some people use a clean turkey baster instead. It's important not to get any impurities in the cells or in the distilled water, so don't do this in a strong wind with dirt blowing around. It's best to wear glasses because the batteries contain strong acid and you don't want to get any in your eyes. Wash your hands afterward and don't rub your face or eyes with your hands until after you wash up. Don't splatter any acid on your clothes because it'll ruin them. It will rust out your coach if you spill it on metal parts. Extinguish all sources of ignition because the hydrogen gas emitted by the batteries is flammable. Wiggle the battery cables to be sure they're still tight, and make sure they're not corroded. I do all this once a month and most months I don't have to add any water. If one particular cell needs water added frequently and the other cells don't, it's possible that cell is bad, so make note of it.
Scott Cook
1991 U300 36' 6V92TA
Old Town Penobscot 16
1984 Honda VF1100C (V65 Magna)

Re: No power in the coach

Reply #10 –

There is a handy battery filler bottle that shuts off when the electrolyte at the right height.  Eliminates the need to look in the cell.  Just put it into the cell, push it down and it automatically fills the battery.  We had these at every mechanics bench.  Big time saver.

Amazon.com: Plews 75-030 Auto Shut Off 2 Quart Capacity Plastic Battery Filler:

Also remember if a battery is completely flat it will not take a charge.  Hook up a good battery neg to neg, pos to pos and it will take a charge.


Keith

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Keith, Joyce & Smokey the Australian Cattle Dog
1995 U320 SE Extreme 40' WTBI Build # 4780, with a Honda CR-V hopefully still following behind.
Motorcade # 17030
FMCA # F422159

Re: No power in the coach

Reply #11 –
The battery filler bottle will not work in our U280, no room. I installed an Aqua Pro  Battery Watering system from RV Power Supply - Motorhome & Electric Car Battery Maintenance/Watering Systems,. No more mirrors, or using a battery filler bulb or turkey baster. Once it is installed takes a minute to top off with water.

Roland
1993 U280 4341
2010 Jeep Liberty
The Pied Pipers

Re: No power in the coach

Reply #12 –
Wouldn't it still be good to look at your batteries and check the connections every so often? I think if I had an automatic battery watering thingy I'd get lazy! haha
Scott Cook
1991 U300 36' 6V92TA
Old Town Penobscot 16
1984 Honda VF1100C (V65 Magna)

Re: No power in the coach

Reply #13 –
It is not a remote fill you have to be at the batteries to fill. Guess if you did it with your eyes clod=sed then you wouldn't have to look at the connections.

Roland
1993 U280 4341
2010 Jeep Liberty
The Pied Pipers

Re: No power in the coach

Reply #14 –
Sorry, I misunderstood, in data centers there are automatic battery management thingys like that but I don't like them because it makes the engineers lazy and they don't want to do the rounds and readings.
Scott Cook
1991 U300 36' 6V92TA
Old Town Penobscot 16
1984 Honda VF1100C (V65 Magna)
 

Re: No power in the coach

Reply #15 –
Thank you (everyone ) for you input. I talked to Red Tractor ( Ron ) and he told me if I had battery power on the engine side to start it up. When I did the R-7 remote for the inverter lit up  and I was so relieved. My house batteries, before I started the engine, were 2 volts. It went up to 13.4 volts. I switched on the generator and all systems seem to be ok. I replaced the 50 amp input receptacle on the drivers side of the coach and plugged into the 50 amp post. The batteries started on bulk charge and made there way to a float charge. Once again thanks everyone.
Paul R.
1998 U270 36'