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Remote On-Engine Fuel Filter

One of the issues that has deterred me from doing my own fuel filter replacements is the location/accessibility of the on-engine fuel filter.

Aside: In my mind it is the 'Secondary' because it is the second filter the fuel passes through before the engine. I have it seen it referenced as the "Primary" but for this discussion please except my definition.

Ashland Technologies manufacture(s/d) a device which allows the filter to be relocated off the engine.
Prime-Loc Remote Mount Fuel Filter Systems

I had contacted them a few years ago and they said they no longer manufactured them. Since the webpage is still up I contacted them again.  The word I get is that while they no longer actively make then, they keep an 'interest' list and that they would have a production run this summer.
Quote
Ben just informed me that we are making a run this summer. 
We will inform you when they are complete, and you can decide then if you would still like to get one.


The question becomes: What is it worth to me?
I don't have a price as yet but lets say $100. So, $100 for the part, $100 to install, another $100 because I estimated wrong.
That's about 3-4 years of paying the young agile guy (gal) to change it for me.

But... If I have to change filters out on the road due to bad diesel....



Elliott & Mary Bray
ex. 1996 36' U295 - Build 4879
ex. 2018 Coachmen Leprechaun 319MB
 

Re: Remote On-Engine Fuel Filter

Reply #1 –
Elliott,

You are correct in your filter description:  fuel tank, primary filter/water separator, lift pump, secondary (fine) filter, engine.

Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Remote On-Engine Fuel Filter

Reply #2 –
Quote from: TheBrays –
Ashland Technologies manufacture(s/d) a device which allows the filter to be relocated off the engine.
Prime-Loc Remote Mount Fuel Filter Systems

I had contacted them a few years ago and they said they no longer manufactured them. Since the webpage is still up I contacted them again.  The word I get is that while they no longer actively make then, they keep an 'interest' list and that they would have a production run this summer.

I will be calling them on Monday to get on the waiting list.  I had been trying to see if anyone else makes something similar but can't find anything.  The closest I could find was to take one of Cummins fuel diverter adapters (3945184S) which looks like it is used to remove the on engine fuel filter altogether for the pre transfer pump Davco filtration setup and have it machined to accept input and output for the remote fuel filter. 

In addition to the ease of changing the filter, I want to be able to have the same filters on my Cummins as my generator to simplify the stuff I have to carry with me.  The quality and technology associated with filters has improved remarkably and I want the ability to use the high capacity 2 micron Caterpillar secondary/"last chance" fuel filters rather than the 20 micron filters that were common years ago which should result in much less wear on the injectors. 

The filter heads for the Cat filters are only $25 but we just need the ability to bypass the on engine filter.

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Robert
Build # 5304
1998 34' U270 Cummins 6CTA8.3

Re: Remote On-Engine Fuel Filter

Reply #3 –
Thanks to Bill W I was able to get one of the last Prime Loc units.  It is worth any cost, Changing filters now is a minor job compared with the old engine mounted one, Too bad the older 8.3's are slowly going away so there is no market for the Prime Loc.
Gary B

Re: Remote On-Engine Fuel Filter

Reply #4 –
Just spoke with Ben at Ashland RE the Prime-Loc system.  He is taking names, I just got on the list.  Not sure as yet if there is enough interest for them to make some units - if he had to guess he thought the price might be in the $350 range if and when they build them.

Looks and sounds neat, I want one....

If you have a reasonable interest, call Ben at (570)682-0933 and have him add your name to the list.  I am not optimistic right now from my conversation that they will produce any more unless he has a few more names.
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: Remote On-Engine Fuel Filter

Reply #5 –
If I remember my Prime Loc was about 200 hundred bucks.  I had it installed in FL at xxxxx Power systems.  Can't remember full name. Only problem was repriming after install.
Gary B

Re: Remote On-Engine Fuel Filter

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Tim Fiedler –
if he had to guess he thought the price might be in the $350 range if and when they build them.

Ouch.  Personally, $350 seems pretty steep for what they are supplying even though they are doing a limited run. 

Cummins Mid-South and Davco are doing some research for me about the Davco 101570 and 101226 diverter caps that are used in the Davco 243 series remote fuel filtration replacement to see if they will perform the same function. 

http://www.davco.com/pdf-2013/parts/F1315.pdf

The 243 Series is approved by Cummins to allow you completely remove the on engine filter and to place all fuel filtration before the fuel transfer pump.  The on engine filter would have an empty filter type canister put on that would just allow fuel to pass in and out of it with no filtering. 

Robert
Build # 5304
1998 34' U270 Cummins 6CTA8.3

Re: Remote On-Engine Fuel Filter

Reply #7 –
The nice thing about the Prim Loc was that it has a check valve built in, you can remove the filter and not loose the prime to the injector pump.
The selected media item is not currently available.Bill&Doris 97 U270 36'
University of Parris Island Class of 66
Semper Fi  Build# 5174 MC#17094

Re: Remote On-Engine Fuel Filter

Reply #8 –
Heard back from Davco with the part number for the diverter cap for the C8.3 is the 3945184 S or 102226 number from Fleetguard/Cummins. 

The Davco rep said the C8.3 would want the Diesel Pro FH236 fuel filtration setup which can be ordered through Ryder for $272.80

Housing fuel, FH23600, Fleetguard Cummins - Ryder Fleet Products

and would allow you to make this your one and only filter for the C8.3 with a 7 micron filter and using the diverter cap to permanently remove the on engine filter along with your existing primary filtration.  This unit is available with a fuel heating element for use during cold temperatures.  Still waiting on the pricing of the diverter cap from Cummins Mid-South. 

Considering the suggested $350 from Prime Loc, I would rather have the Davco unit, place it somewhere easily accessible (like where my primary filter is located now above the battery) and not have to ever change the on engine filter again. 

http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/LT36164.pdf

It seems like a really interesting system.
Robert
Build # 5304
1998 34' U270 Cummins 6CTA8.3

Re: Remote On-Engine Fuel Filter

Reply #9 –
Robert,

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you are suggesting, but I strongly recommend AGAINST going from two fuel filters to one-- irrespective of how great the one is.

Freightliner did that a couple of years ago in a cost cutting measure and had so many complaints and clogged filters that the went back to two filters.

The primary filter in a two filter system does two things:  Removes water and "removes the rocks".  Filter micron ratings are 10-30.

The secondary filter is the fine filter with micron ratings between 2-5 micron.

A single fine filter (the micron rating determined by the engine maker) will clog much more quickly than if the "rocks"/large particles don't reach the fine filter.

I am very much in favor of having both fuel filters where they are easy to service,. however.

Brett
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Remote On-Engine Fuel Filter

Reply #10 –
I'm beginning to wonder if I am overly complicating the issue a little.
I havn't seen all the pieces and parts that make up the Prime-Loc system but it has to include some type of filter replacement piece on the engine (hopefully spin on), hoses, and a new filter head for the remote fine filter.

Background:
On my boat I had a pair of 6.354 Perkins diesels. Each of which had:
a shared Racor 900 primary --> a Racor 500 secondary--> Fram water separator  --> Fram Filter --> On-Engine filter.

Wait, don't comment yet!!
When I got the boat I changed then all (13 filters including the Gen)
I never changed the Frams (left by the PO when adding the Racors) OR THE ON-ENGINE filter again in 6 years and 2000+ hours.

The only filters I worried about were the Racors. I had a vacuum gauge of each string and would change when needed - turned out to be about the same frequency as the oil change interval.

New Thought:
Some of @rsihnhold and Brett's  thoughts pointed me to an alternatively direction (which may be different only for me :-[ ).
Why not add another filter head and a 2 micron filter immediately after the Primary (and before the lift pump) and just leave the on-engine filter alone (or use a dummy as he suggests).

Seems simpler and cheaper too.
Elliott & Mary Bray
ex. 1996 36' U295 - Build 4879
ex. 2018 Coachmen Leprechaun 319MB
 

Re: Remote On-Engine Fuel Filter

Reply #11 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
Robert,

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you are suggesting, but I strongly recommend AGAINST going from two fuel filters to one-- irrespective of how great the one is.

Freightliner did that a couple of years ago in a cost cutting measure and had so many complaints and clogged filters that the went back to two filters.

The primary filter in a two filter system does two things:  Removes water and "removes the rocks".  Filter micron ratings are 10-30.

The secondary filter is the fine filter with micron ratings between 2-5 micron.

A single fine filter (the micron rating determined by the engine maker) will clog much more quickly than if the "rocks"/large particles don't reach the fine filter.

I am very much in favor of having both fuel filters where they are easy to service,. however.

Brett

This is being recommended by Fleetguard/Cummins themselves.  I am very well aware of how multistage filtration works.   

 The FH236 is pretty interesting because the clear filter housing allows the user to visually monitor the level of filter clogging since the bottom most levels of the filter clog first and the fuel level inside the housing keeps moving higher to find clean filter material to pull the fuel through.  When the fuel in the housing reaches the top of the filter, it is time to replace the filter. 

I'm not saying that a single high capacity 7 micron filter couldn't plug up within a few hours of picking up poor quality fuel, a quick internet search will turn up showing that this has happened on iRV2 and with truckers but the operator was able to visually monitor the filter clogging (which any of us could not do unless they had vacuum gauges attached to their filter heads to measure restriction) and it didn't take him by surprise.  The operator had to do 2 more filter changes over the next 2 days but was able to keep tabs on the situation by checking out the system every few hours to visually monitor when to change the filter.  You would definitely want to carry 3-5 spare filters with you at all times but I'm pretty sure we all carry 2-3 primary and secondary filters for our existing systems anyway. 

According to Cummins/Fleetguard, if you still felt the need to add multiple levels of filtration, you could but they are telling me that the system in my link is set up to work all by itself on the C8.3 with a single 7 micron filter replacing both primary and secondary filtration.  Our engines came from the factory with a 20 micron FS1251 secondary/last chance filter on them so it isn't picking up much compared to what the Caterpillar 2 micron filters are and a 7 micron filter would pick up much more than the FS1251. 

I would personally be looking at 2 stage filtration with a Caterpillar engine that required 2 micron protection and there is a 2 micron filter option for the FH236 but with something that fine I would have a primary/bulk filter before it to pick up all the larger gunk in the fuel but the Cummins of our era do not require that small of particles to be removed from the fuel though there are benefits to doing so. 

I'm just repeating what Davco, who manufactures the unit for Cummins, told me.  I'm not going to buy the unit at the moment since I have gotten the Seaboard lubricity enhancing filter setup in the last few months and my FS1251 secondary/engine filter is just sitting there doing essentially nothing since the FS20000 filter in the setup is a high capacity 5 micron filter

SMX Multi-Stage Fuel Fueltration? System Kits

but I do wish that I had paid more attention to the units that Cummins sells before I bought mine.  I honestly didn't realize that you could get a setup like the FH236 for under $300 and probably would have gotten it rather than what I bought though I would probably would have left my 20 micron primary fuel filter in place.


Robert
Build # 5304
1998 34' U270 Cummins 6CTA8.3
 

Re: Remote On-Engine Fuel Filter

Reply #12 –
Quote from: TheBrays –
Some of @rsihnhold and Brett's  thoughts pointed me to an alternatively direction (which may be different only for me :-[ ).
Why not add another filter head and a 2 micron filter immediately after the Primary (and before the lift pump) and just leave the on-engine filter alone (or use a dummy as he suggests).


No, the lift pump is not designed to pull against a high vacuum.  That is why all the filter systems have only the one filter (course one) on the suction side of the pump.

Now, you can physically relocate the secondary filter to any location, but in terms of "plumbing", it needs to have the primary on suction side and secondary on pressure side of the lift pump.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020