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Disk Brakes Lubed, Need Advice

Upon return from the Alaska Motorcade it was time for an oil change, lube, and fuel filters.  I was able to get an appointment with Cummins Western Canada in Winnipeg Manitoba.

Concerning the lube:
    • I emphasized to the service writer to stay away from the brakes during the lube process.
    • It wasn't specifically addressed on the service order so I added it by pen before signing the order.  The service writer noted it and said the shop would see it.
    • When the tech arrived to pick up the coach for the service, I asked if he would be the one doing the lube.  He said yes.  I emphasized the need to stay away from the brakes with the grease gun explaining the issue.  He acknowledged the issue and my concern.
    • When I received the statement for the work, the supervisor presented it to me.  He brought up that he noted that I was concerned about not lubing the brakes.  He said that the service tech that did the job was the best and that he was well aware of the issue.

That was Friday.  Yesterday afternoon I thought I would do a cursory check on the service performed.  I could not believe my eyes when I found that the rear calipers had been greased.  >:(

To say the least, I was devastated.  Even in retrospect I don't think I could have been more explicit in warning untrained technicians of the issue with air disk brake systems. 

"Obviously, I should have taken Barry Leavitt's advice to put tie wraps on the fittings.  It's on my To Do list but I haven't done it yet.) :-[

Monday morning I will return to Cummins at start of business to work the issue.  Thankfully with regular use of the retarder my brake usage will be minimal.

I have printed out the appropriate "Lubrication and Maintenance" section from the Meritor Maintenance Manual.

I would appreciated advice to help me prepare for the return to Cummins.  Specifically:
    • What is the proper recovery process?  I need this to be as authoritative as possible.
    • Authoritative references on the issues involved with the improper grease AND process.
    • Does anyone know of a Meritor knowledgeable shop in the Winnipeg MB area? 

Thanking y'all in advance,
Audrey & Harvey Nelson
2000 U-320, 40' towing 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee
nelsonah@ieee.org

Re: Disk Brakes Lubed, Need Advice

Reply #1 –
Harvey, I think the only solution to the ongoing problem of jerks and zerks is either to do it yourself OR be in the pit or on the floor with the TECH? and supervise his every move.  I guess one could remove the zerks and replace them with plugs so the jerks could not do there thing.

Gary B

Re: Disk Brakes Lubed, Need Advice

Reply #2 –
Either put zip ties over the zirks, or better, as Gary said, just remove and blind plug them.  They are only normally greased ONCE OR TWICE in the life of the pads.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Disk Brakes Lubed, Need Advice

Reply #3 –
Hi Harvey -

Welcome to the club.  We and many others on this forum have had the same experience - unfortunately.  It is possible that the lube they used is compliant to the NLGI Grade 1 specifications.  Although we had the calipers purged of the lube with a Grade 1 compliant grease.  It takes about 1 tube to do all four calipers.  The main difference between Grade 1 and Grade 2 is the upper and lower Temp. specs are greater than Grade 2.  Also the viscosity is a little thinner. 

We drove with the grade 2 for about 1K miles with no ill effects before the calipers were purged and the Grade 1 was used.  I do not believe that your brakes have been harmed by the Tech using a Grade 2 lube.  Before you have them purge and replace what is in there, you might compare the temp specs of the lube that the Tech used to the NLGI Grade 2 specs.  What he used might be OK.  We had the Tech place Zip Ties on all the Caliper zerk fittings.

Re:  Authoritative resources you / they can find the Meritor "Air Disk Brakes - Maintenance Manual 4M" on the Meritor web site.  It outlines the Caliper lube and purge process.  I believe: page 50.  Any Tech should be able to perform this process with the Meritor documents.

Good luck - try not to let it ruin your day.  :D



Scott & Carol Seibert
2001 42' double slide U320 - Sold
Previous - 2002 36' U320

Re: Disk Brakes Lubed, Need Advice

Reply #4 –
OUCH! Wish I could help, you are in my home town (but I am not right now).

I'm a motorhome Foretravel wannabee, and before I got to this forum today, I was reading a service horror story about wrong transmission fluid on an RV blog. There are idiots everywhere, sad to say.

I see that Fleet Brake on Oak Point Highway in Winnipeg are Meritor reps. My only experience with them was for an alignment check on our travel trailer after an accident. Helpful, friendly, answer-oriented staff. Alignment shop manager spent the time I needed to review issues. Other parts of the faciiity, who knows?

They were very up front when I contacted them that they are a commercial truck shop, so our 26 foot travel trailer might be "bumped" to get somebody back on the road. Up front honesty, I could deal with that!

If you want a break from the repair mill by mid-week and are still in Winnipeg, I can offer a coffee break or lunch with someone who is not part of this aggravation. We'll be back to Winnipeg Tuesday or Wednesday.

Good luck!
Jack Binkley & Nancy Jo Harmon
The SunRamblers

Rambling the continent in an RV, looking for sunshine, favorite & new places, & friends old & new.

36' 1997 Foretravel U320    # 5141

Re: Disk Brakes Lubed, Need Advice

Reply #5 –
I don't understand this reoccurring problem. Either be out there with the tech, or just remove the grease fittings all together and put in plugs. Putting zip-ties on the zerks just draws more attention--I don't see how that is a solution.
1998 U270 34'

Re: Disk Brakes Lubed, Need Advice

Reply #6 –
Early yesterday I sent a letter via email to the Winnipeg Cummins branch manager & the service mgr.  When we arrived two techs immediately came out to see us and shortly thereafter the branch mgr.  The techs verified the issue and did all the talking for me.  What had been done and the consequences.  The branch mgr was very nice and apologetic.  They recommended taking it to a qualified shop for inspection and resolution.

We went to Fleet Brake, per SunRambler Jack's and Cummins' recomendations, and they were unable to help because they don't do motorhomes.  They suggested several places who in turn suggested several places.  All of them were unable or help us.  The last place suggested was the nearby Westrans who said they were Meritor dealers and could help us.

While tracking down the specified grease they removed the rear wheels and we did a visual inspection.  The good news is that everything looked good and the wheels turned without dragging which was one of the two concerns with the greasing.  The tech was amazed at the condition of the rotors and disk pads and amazed that we had 120K miles on them.  Love that retarder. :)

Unfortunately they spent most of the rest of the day still trying to track down the clay based grease without success locally.

It turns out they didn't have the equipment to raise the front end to rotate the greased right front.  A visual inspection looked ok though.

After spending all day in the coach in their shop we gave up and were out of there by about 4 PM.  (Thank goodness we could stay in the coach.  Sitting in a waiting room would have been a real nightmare.) 

Two interesting observations from today:
    • Qualified disk brake shops, at least in the Winnipeg area, are busy and just don't work on RVs PERIOD.
    • The Meritor clay based grease is almost impossible to find.  The conclusion we came to is that it is now obsolete and better high temp grease is now used.  Big question:  Can one use these new products?  If so, can one just flush out the old with the new?

My plan is to move on till I can find qualified service continuing to keep my brakes from overheating by using the retarder.  That may be when we get to Nac in the fall.

Audrey & Harvey Nelson
2000 U-320, 40' towing 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee
nelsonah@ieee.org

Re: Disk Brakes Lubed, Need Advice

Reply #7 –
On our 320 we had a similar issue with explicit instructions to avoid the brakes ignored. In that case we had Foretravel correct the issue. They simply purged the grease by pumping in the clay based stuff.

On our 300 I wanted to make sure. I told the service manager and he entered the instructions into their computer. He then printed out those instructions, highlighted them in yellow and added the remark to see the service manager before proceeding. Of course, they greased the brakes. Should add that I had painted the brake zerks red.

I bought the proper grease on the internet and gave the a grease gun loaded with it and now have the right grease.

Anyhow, after going through what Harvey and others have experienced I have to ask the question: Has anyone ever had a problem other than emotional caused by the brakes being lubed with the wrong grease?
jor
93 225
95 300
97 270
99 320

Re: Disk Brakes Lubed, Need Advice

Reply #8 –
Quote from: jor –
On our 320 we had a similar issue with explicit instructions to avoid the brakes ignored. In that case we had Foretravel correct the issue. They simply purged the grease by pumping in the clay based stuff.

On our 300 I wanted to make sure. I told the service manager and he entered the instructions into their computer. He then printed out those instructions, highlighted them in yellow and added the remark to see the service manager before proceeding. Of course, they greased the brakes. Should add that I had painted the brake zerks red.

I bought the proper grease on the internet and gave the a grease gun loaded with it and now have the right grease.

Anyhow, after going through what Harvey and others have experienced I have to ask the question: Has anyone ever had a problem other than emotional caused by the brakes being lubed with the wrong grease?
jor

Only the overfilling because of no one removing the required to be removed plug from the top of the caliper to prevent it.  Then they dragged.  Not the exact issue you asked about but no one has mentioned removing the plug the meritor manual states needs to be done prior to the grease use.

Looking again at page 51 in the manual it says after lubing to remove the pressure releif plug then back off the slack adjuster to displace the extra grease. Then reinstall the relief valve.  Or the brakes can drag....

Says to extend the slack adjuster first.  Then lube then remove the releif then retract the adjuster then wipe off the overflow then reinstall the relief and then adjust the adjuster.

Unless ours are different than the manual shows?

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Disk Brakes Lubed, Need Advice

Reply #9 –
The grease MOT sold and are using is Mobiltemp SHC32 red grease which is the correct grease. Here is the proof:
PrintFind a PDSFind a MSDS
 Mobiltemp SHC™ Series
Grease
Product Description

Mobiltemp SHC™ Series products are supreme performance antiwear greases primarily intended for high temperature applications. They combine the unique features of polyalphaolefin (PAO) synthetic base fluids with those of an organo-clay, non-soap thickener. The excellent resistance to thermal/oxidative degradation provided by the PAO base, coupled with the excellent high temperature structural stability and high dropping point of the clay thickener result in outstanding high temperature greases. The wax-free nature of the synthetic base fluid and its high viscosity index also provide superior low temperature lubrication as well as excellent film protection at high temperatures.

Because the PAO base oil has low traction properties (compared to mineral oil), Mobiltemp SHC Series also offer the potential for energy savings through reduced friction and lower torque, and reduced temperatures in the load zone of rolling element bearings. The Mobiltemp SHC Series is available as three products: Mobiltemp SHC 32 is an NLGI 1 1/2 grade with ISO VG 32 base oil; Mobiltemp SHC 100 is an NLGI 2 grade with ISO VG 100 base oil; Mobiltemp SHC 460 Special is an NLGI 1 grade with ISO VG 460 base oil, plus molybdenum disulphide for extra wear protection.

The Mobiltemp SHC Series of greases is used in numerous high temperature applications, as well as applications where low temperature start-up or running torque is important. They provide excellent grease life at high temperatures and offer extended relubrication periods and energy savings potential.

Mobiltemp SHC Series greases have become the products of choice for many users, in many industries worldwide. Their reputation is based on very wide application temperature range, and their excellent overall performance.
 
Features and Benefits

The Mobil SHC brand of oils and greases are recognised and appreciated around the world for their innovation and outstanding performance. These molecular design PAO synthetic products, pioneered by ExxonMobil research scientists, symbolise the continuing commitment to using advanced technology to provide outstanding products. A key factor in the development of Mobiltemp SHC Series was the close contact between our scientists and application specialists with key Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) to ensure that our product offerings would provide exceptional performance in the continually evolving industrial equipment designs.

Our work with equipment builders has helped confirm the results from our own laboratory tests showing the exceptional performance of the Mobiltemp SHC Series lubricants. These benefits include superb high temperature performance including thickener integrity and oxidation life with enhanced bearing protection and bearing life.

To combat high thermal exposure of the oil our product formulation scientists chose PAO synthetic base oils for Mobiltemp SHC Series oils because of their exceptional thermal/oxidative resistance potential. Our formulators used a special clay thickener to provide excellent structural stability and high dropping point. Mobiltemp SHC Series greases offer the following benefits:
Features  Advantages and Potential Benefits
Outstanding high and low temperature performance  Reduced downtime and lower maintenance costs
Excellent resistance to oxidation and maintenance of grease structure at high temperatures  Extended service life with longer intervals between relubrication
Low coefficient of traction  Reduced energy consumption potential
Outstanding low temperature pumpability  Easier low temperature start-up and lower running torque
Very good antiwear protection  Extended bearing life, reduced unanticipated downtime
 
Applications

Mobiltemp SHC greases offer excellent high temperature grease life, bearing protection and grease integrity along with excellent low temperature capability and good wear protection. Specific applications include:

    For Mobiltemp SHC 32
    Sealed or re-packable ball and roller bearings
    Splines, screws and some enclosed gearing
    Extreme temperature applications with a recommended operating temperature range of -50º C to 180º C (with appropriate relubrication intervals).
    For Mobiltemp SHC 100
    High speed bearings and thrust bearings where a wide temperature range is desired
    It is particularly suitable for use in electric motor bearings where operating conditions demand reduced friction, low wear and long service life
    Extreme temperature applications with a recommended operating temperature range of -50º C to 200º C (with appropriate relubrication intervals).
    For Mobiltemp SHC 460 Special
    The presence of molybdenum disulphide makes it particularly suitable for the lubrication of sliding machine elements such as cams and ways, which are subject to long relubrication intervals, limited motion or shock loading.
    Oven conveyor or kiln bearings which are subject to high temperatures or cycling between high and normal temperatures
    Extreme temperature applications with a recommended operating temperature range of -40º C to 180º C (with appropriate relubrication intervals).

 
Specifications and Approvals

Mobiltemp SHC Series meets or exceeds the requirements of:  32  100  460 Special
DIN 51825: (2004-06)  KPHC1-2K-50L     

 
Typical Properties

Mobiltemp SHC Series  32  100  460 Special
NLGI Grade  1.5  2  1
Thickener Type  Clay  Clay  Clay
Color, Visual  Red  Light Brown  Grey
Penetration, Worked, 25ºC, ASTM D 217  315  280  325
Dropping Point, ºC, ASTM D 2265  260+  260+  260+
Viscosity of Oil, ASTM D 445         
cSt @ 40º C  32  100  460
4-Ball Wear, ASTM D 2266, Scar, mm  0.7  0.4  0.4
4-Ball Weld, ASTM D 2596, Load, Kg  200+  200+  250+

 
Health and Safety

Based on available information, this product is not expected to produce adverse effects on health when used for the intended application and the recommendations provided in the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) are followed. MSDS's are available upon request through your sales contract office, or via the Internet. This product should not be used for purposes other than its intended use. If disposing of used product, take care to protect the environment.

The Mobil logotype, the Pegasus design, and Mobiltemp SHC are trademarks of Exxon Mobil Corporation, or one of its subsidiaries.

6-2014

Exxon Mobil Corporation
3225 Gallows Road
Fairfax, VA 22037

1-800-ASK MOBIL (275-6624)

Typical Properties are typical of those obtained with normal production tolerance and do not constitute a specification.  Variations that do not affect product performance are to be expected during normal manufacture and at different blending locations.  The information contained herein is subject to change without notice. All products may not be available locally. For more information, contact your local ExxonMobil contact or visit ExxonMobil
ExxonMobil is comprised of numerous affiliates and subsidiaries, many with names that include Esso, Mobil, or ExxonMobil. Nothing in this document is intended to override or supersede the corporate separateness of local entities. Responsibility for local action and accountability remains with the local ExxonMobil-affiliate entities.

Copyright © 2001-2014 Exxon Mobil Corporation. All rights reserved.
John
1998 U270 34'

Re: Disk Brakes Lubed, Need Advice

Reply #10 –
I submitted the above report to Meritor and received their approval to use on their brake system.
John
1998 U270 34'

Re: Disk Brakes Lubed, Need Advice

Reply #11 –
Maybe the Mods could make this a sticky?  It comes up all the time.

Keith
Keith, Joyce & Smokey the Australian Cattle Dog
1995 U320 SE Extreme 40' WTBI Build # 4780, with a Honda CR-V hopefully still following behind.
Motorcade # 17030
FMCA # F422159

Re: Disk Brakes Lubed, Need Advice

Reply #12 –
I ordered some mobilgrease 28 like many others on this forum have done.
1998 U270 34'

Re: Disk Brakes Lubed, Need Advice

Reply #13 –
My question:  How do I tell whether or not they followed my directions?  Is there an easy place to look, and what do I look for?

The reason I ask is that my coach is at Temecula Valley RV to have the refrigerator replaced and the TV upgrade.  It's been there long enough that the time has come for a chassis lube and oil change.  Temecula Valley is an authorized Foretravel warranty repair facility, so they do see Foretravels.  I asked the service writer if they can assure me the brakes will not be touched.  She said yes, and the service will be done by one of their senior mechanics (not a technician, but a real mechanic) who knows Foretravel.  I also talked to the owner, and got a similar assurance. Needless to say, my fingers are crossed.

Should I be worried?
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer

Re: Disk Brakes Lubed, Need Advice

Reply #14 –
yes. Â are you near by? ask to speak directly to the tech that will be servicing the unit - in person or over the phone.

and still keep your fingers crossed. Â something about seeing a grease zero brings out a knee jerk reaction...
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: Disk Brakes Lubed, Need Advice

Reply #15 –
Harvey, with the proper pages from the Meritor manual MM4, any truck tech that works on air brakes should be able to properly lube purge and adjust your brakes, it can be done with the wheels on the ground no need to jack anything up. That's of course if they are willing, it not rocket science. Tools required 3/4, 3/8, 7/16 wrench, a set of wheel chocks, and of course a grease gun. I would imagine about 2 hours shop time. As John said Mobil SHC 32 is the correct spec grease, but like the Meritor stuff it is not cheap or easy to find. I would also imagine Amsoil, Sentinel lubes, Shell, or Mystic would have a grease that meets the correct spec.

I am one of those grease monkeys, just our nature to grease fittings. Like others said best to plug the fittings on the caliper itself to prevent future issues, just don't plug the one on the slack adjuster itself they need to be greased at service time.

Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Disk Brakes Lubed, Need Advice

Reply #16 –
On this same subject, something I've wondered about - the question of how often to grease the brake calipers.  I have seen suggested time intervals as short as every 6 months, and as long as "twice during the life of the brake pads" (which on a coach with retarder could be a LONG time).  Assuming the correct grease and correct procedure is used, would any actual harm be done by TOO FREQUENT lubrication?  Other than the fact you would be wasting money, of course.  And the fact that every time the brakes are greased, you have provided the opportunity for somebody to screw up the job.  Just curious...
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"
 

Re: Disk Brakes Lubed, Need Advice

Reply #17 –
I realized that the chassis grease was used on our calipers by turning the wheels all the way right and left.  When the wheels are turned you can see the top of the caliper zerk fitting - same with the left.  I saw NEW grease on those fittings.  I moved the coach slightly so as I was turning the steering wheel the coach was moving forward or backwards.  Didn't want to put excessive pressure on the steering mechanism.
Scott & Carol Seibert
2001 42' double slide U320 - Sold
Previous - 2002 36' U320