TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Topic: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS (Read 1528 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #25 – July 16, 2015, 04:53:33 am

Quote from: Rick & Robyn – July 15, 2015, 04:08:30 pm

Lon,
Did you get your Commander set up for towing? I have the same Jeep and was curious what brake system you decided on, how it worked out and how it tows.
Thanks.

Its still a work in progress.
I bought a Blue Ox tow bar (10,000# cap). and intend to buy the Blue Ox base plate # BX1125.
I was researching the brake system and after talking to John Duld decided on the M&G system. I contacted M&G and was told that it was NOT a easy install. I looked at a video and saw the fuse boxes (2) need to be relocated forward to give clearance for the extended brake chamber. The master cylinder then needs to be moved forward and the brake lines running to it need to be extended. The brake system then needs to be bleed. Its the system I would prefer but I'm reluctant to alter the Jeeps brakes. I would actually feel more confident of a install if I did it myself. I don't have confidence in a local shop doing this modification. I don't like to play around with a braking system with a shop that my cut corners. Something I may not realize till it fails!
I'm now leaning to the ReadyBrake system. but open to checking out the Air Force 1.
I read many good reviews of the ReadyBrake from members here so I know that it would probably work fine with the JAKE brake and Foretravel.
With a secondary system like this I like the K.I.S.S. philosophy rather than something that is over complicated and leaves more to go wrong or try's to do too much.
Let me know how your efforts pan out.

BTW!
Did you get a recall notice for the software update on the Commander?
It seems the last recall for this did more damage than good( Unable to put Jeep into Neutral for a tow) I'm waiting to see how others find the software update before I take mine in.
Jeep is no good if it can't be flat towed!

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #26 – July 16, 2015, 06:17:13 am

I did not let them do the upgrade on my Grand Cherokee of that very reason. How much does the commander weigh? I never put a brake on my wrangler and never needed one. It was 3500 pounds. I have one on my grand cherokee and it is much heavier at over 5K. If it is not much over 4K I would not bother with a braking system. I know that is sacrilegious to some but FT designed our couches to pull our lighter weight tow cars without them. I felt the bigger car behind me so I put it on but I never felt the Jeep. I did do a test once and borrowed a jeep from a friend who had a pendulum system in his. I was in a lot so I went up to 20 MPH and stood on the brake both with it working and with it not connected and there was really no difference in stopping. The fact was that the none connected stop was actually a foot shorter. It is not scientific and there are variables and the idea that you can hit the brake at exactly the same point, but I was close with when I put it on. I have not done it with the grand but I do think that the extra weight would be noticeable but the fact was when I was pulling the Jeep, I could have put the jeep inside the coach and still not been over the weight limits but I would be over the CCC on the coach with the grand by a bit over 1000 pounds. If I was still under I would not have bothered with the Grand Cherokee brakes. You need to weigh both and decide for yourself.

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #27 – July 16, 2015, 06:47:24 am

Quote from: Lon and Cheryl – July 16, 2015, 04:53:33 am

I contacted M&G and was told that it was NOT a easy install.

Also my first choice, but after being told the same thing, decided to explore options.

Quote from: Lon and Cheryl – July 16, 2015, 04:53:33 am

Did you get a recall notice for the software update on the Commander?
It seems the last recall for this did more damage than good( Unable to put Jeep into Neutral for a tow) I'm waiting to see how others find the software update before I take mine in.
Jeep is no good if it can't be flat towed!

I did get the notice, but have not acted on it. Thanks so much for the heads up!

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #28 – July 16, 2015, 07:19:43 am

Quote from: John S – July 16, 2015, 06:17:13 am

How much does the commander weigh?

Commander weighs in at about 5,100 lbs, so braking system is likely prudent.

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #29 – July 16, 2015, 07:40:23 am

Yes, that is only a couple hundred less then my Grand so I would put one on. I have liked my Air Force one and it has worked well since day one.

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #30 – July 16, 2015, 08:04:58 am

If you have to make a quick stop because some "Jerk" pulled out in front of you

you will kiss your braking system

Only needed once in 4 years but worth every penny. Now have dash camera so if this happens I can show what actually happened. I am not sure why drivers think you can stop on a dime. Every trip now someone is in a hurry. I think I am getting older.

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #31 – July 16, 2015, 08:32:09 am

Dan, I think the tag axle gives me extra braking and I could pick up the whole jeep and put inside. I do not think that on my coach the brake will not make a huge difference in stopping power if I had the wrangler. I know you can argue that brakes all help but the coach brakes are so much stronger and the retarder added to it will make the coach stop much faster. Most other builders do not have the retarder so they only have coach brakes. I did notice a difference once I broke 42000 pounds though and added my tow brake right away. I have lots of miles over which to judge it and I will agree on the heavier towed vehicles, you should have a brake. Also if you have a lighter coach you should have a brake. I remember that when I got my first FT they said as long as the Tow is less the 10 percent of the coaches weight they designed the coach to stop towing the car.

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #32 – July 16, 2015, 01:51:41 pm

Here is a map with state to state color coded requirements. We are just under 3K with our RAV4 so don't usually hook up our toad brakes but really should here in California.

State and Province Towing Laws - NSA RV Products

Pierce

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #33 – July 16, 2015, 07:11:34 pm

It would probably be best practice to contact the manufacturer and discuss the install with them - vehicle specific. I would guess based on the car, installs will differ. Again on our 2014 Jeep Wrangler the M&G fit right in. No cutting - no holes through the fire wall and no cable attached to the brake pedal.

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #34 – July 16, 2015, 09:43:50 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – July 16, 2015, 01:51:41 pm

Here is a map with state to state color coded requirements. We are just under 3K with our RAV4 so don't usually hook up our toad brakes but really should here in California.

State and Province Towing Laws - NSA RV Products

Pierce

This has been beat to death before but the charts from the companies that sell tow products always show the same thing. In this case I know VA requires a performance braking standard but this chart does not have it. Also, most states talk about tow vehicles but also have in their code a section that deals with towing a item that can move on its own power or had the ability to move that way. The fact is that it is not for RVs but Tow Trucks. Big trucks have to have air hooked up to tow them but when was the last time a tow truck put on a brake to tow your car. They did not and do not. They have to meet a performance requirement and that is one of the reasons they have different sized wreckers. You tow a Pickup they will send a bigger one then when you are towing a Honda Civic. That said, my previous comments about heavier towed cars and trucks and foretravel stands. I put on a brake on my jeep because, even though I would meet the standard, with the Jeep there was a difference in stopping. I had no difference with a brake equipped Wrangler vs none with my coach. You would think there would be but the braking on the Foretravel so overwhelmed the brakes on the Wrangler it did not make a difference in the test. I am sure if it was a super scientific test, it might have shaved an inch off maybe but I did not stop any sooner or faster or cover any more ground.

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #35 – July 17, 2015, 01:28:24 am

My towed is well over 1500 pounds, and I tow it in California. Although I know my Fortravel with 4000 pound towed would stop better than most SOBs solo, I don't want to be out of legal compliance. I use my SMI Air Force One every time. And I have experienced panic stops, very happy to have had the AF1 working.

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #36 – July 17, 2015, 04:00:20 am

I will start a separate post regarding the Jeep recall.

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #37 – July 17, 2015, 08:03:37 am

The arguments about accessory braking systems reminds me of the values for "normal" serum cholesterol levels that are derived from research sponsored by the drug companies that manufacture and sell cholesterol lowering drugs. Tends to create a certain amount of cynicism, doesn't it?

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #38 – July 17, 2015, 08:31:53 am

No matter what the laws say, no matter if brakes on your toad help a little or a lot at 20 mph or 60 mph, in a panic stop or a gentle stop you would be better off with a toad braking system of any type than not. If you have a braking system on your toad that is hooked up you should be good everywhere. And don't forget about break away brakes. These are widely required as well.

Our ready brake system is so simple. One hole through the firewall for the cable was the only modification to our Wragler. Adjustable, proportional, works with the coach brakes and/or the retarder, no modifications to the coach and it makes the jeep brake lights come on if it is braking even if the coach is not (like down hill,with the coach in a lower gear). Hooking it up takes seconds, a short cable with a snap ring at each end.

I looked at many. This appealed to me because of the easy install and hookup, easy to transfer to a different car or coach or any other towing vehicle and because it is simple.

Look at all of the options. Buy what you like.

Roger

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #39 – July 17, 2015, 11:47:57 am

When people talk about the "law" in reference to supplemental brakes they are talking about legal issues.

There is another, bigger law that we sometimes forget until we get into trouble. That law is physics-even if you have a small toad at 1.5 tons ( 3000 lbs) it will take longer to stop the whole rig without brakes on the toad because physics says there is an additional 3000 lbs to stop.

Legal issues are one thing, physics is another. I have always used supplemental brakes since I started RVing and now I love my Air Force 1.

Find the system you like and will use. Then enjoy the journey.

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #40 – July 17, 2015, 12:09:23 pm

Quote from: Roger and Susan in Home2 – July 17, 2015, 08:31:53 am

And don't forget about break away brakes.

Roger, Does the Readybreak break away kit require a second hole in the firewall and a second cable to the brake pedal?

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #41 – July 17, 2015, 01:38:48 pm

Keep up the replies. This is a needed subject for me. Will be towing a 2011 Buick Enclave.

Larry

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #42 – July 17, 2015, 03:37:48 pm

Break away ready brake add a second cable. I used a second hole right next to the first one. The cable goes through and is all sealed up with silicon. This cable should never be pulled unless there is a big problem. Connects to the brake pedal with the same clamp as the regular brake pedal.

There is no reason that both cables could not go through the same hole.

Easy to hook up. Roger

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Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #25 – July 16, 2015, 04:53:33 am

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #26 – July 16, 2015, 06:17:13 am

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #27 – July 16, 2015, 06:47:24 am

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #28 – July 16, 2015, 07:19:43 am

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #29 – July 16, 2015, 07:40:23 am

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #30 – July 16, 2015, 08:04:58 am

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #31 – July 16, 2015, 08:32:09 am

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #32 – July 16, 2015, 01:51:41 pm

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #33 – July 16, 2015, 07:11:34 pm

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #34 – July 16, 2015, 09:43:50 pm

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #35 – July 17, 2015, 01:28:24 am

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #36 – July 17, 2015, 04:00:20 am

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #37 – July 17, 2015, 08:03:37 am

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #38 – July 17, 2015, 08:31:53 am

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #39 – July 17, 2015, 11:47:57 am

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #40 – July 17, 2015, 12:09:23 pm

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #41 – July 17, 2015, 01:38:48 pm

Re: TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS

Reply #42 – July 17, 2015, 03:37:48 pm

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