Motor aide leak- still

Topic: Motor aide leak- still (Read 680 times) previous topic - next topic

Motor aide leak- still

August 07, 2015, 10:37:42 am

I thought I had this issue solved- wrong. The isolator valve has been tightened as much as possible, but I am still losing some coolant in the water heater bay. Less than before but enough that I want to deal with it before heading west.

I have a friend here in Ohio who has a big building/shop and a mechanic that also does work on the side. I talked with him about my bringing the coach down there to resolve this issue- being full time in a campground it is very difficult ( impossible) to hide pulling a water heater and coolant loss, etc. The advantage also of going to work at my buddies is that he has a fork lift there which will make it much easier to pull out, support the water heater and replace.

Here is my plan- I am not sure if it is a hose, connection, or leak in the tubing of the water heater itself. It works great on propane and electric, so I want to pull off the coolant hoses and connect them directly, thus by-passing the water heater. I also will replace the cut off valve with a ball valve. I think this will totally isolate the water heater and should resolve the leak- then I can use the water heater on propane/electric.

Does this sound like a good plan? Am I missing something I should be aware of? I would appreciate any comments or ideas about this so I can be prepared when I go to the shop next week. I'm hoping those who have gone before me can share their experiences.

Thanks in advance for your help. This is a great forum with great people.

Ted

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #1 – August 07, 2015, 12:10:36 pm

Do I understand that you are losing ENGINE COOLANT in the water bay ?
If so I would first check the packing on the valve that closes off the coolant flow. This packing can be tightened to a small extent but not much.
Then check the clamps at the hoses that are attached to the valve itself. They can weep with engine running and not at engine shut down.
Then I would start looking at fittings on the WATER HEATER itself, there is an opening in the wall between the water bay and the next, a flashlight and mirror can be helpful in checking this area behind the water heater..
Personally I would not pull the water heater til I have eliminated these other potential leak areas.
To bypass the water heater I would suggest that you use two vice grips, clamp them down on hoses entering the water heater and that will tell you if the coil in the water heater is leaking which is unlikely.
Good Luck
Gary B

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #2 – August 07, 2015, 01:06:15 pm

Yes Gary- coolant in the bay. I have checked everything I can get to, but have not been able to see behind the water heater for the connections there. How do I get to the opening to the back of the water heater? From inside my main storage bay? I haven't tried that yet,but if I find a leak on the clamps there, how can I reach them without pulling the water heater???

I like your ideas about checking the simple stuff first. Going to see if I can see anything behind the water heater.

I assume that I should have the coach running while I am checking for leaks??

Thanks,
Ted

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #3 – August 07, 2015, 03:19:21 pm

Update:
I had coach running at normal operating temp. went looking under and behind water heater with mirror and light. Connections to the water heater seem to be tight and clean, but dripping through the insulation was the nice red engine coolant. This makes me think that a possible leak in the tubing itself for the motor aide. No way for me to tell exactly without pulling it out and testing.

Question: Since we are talking about a 15 year old water heater that is in our full time living coach, should I try to by pass the motor aid as in my first post or should I replace it with a new one? I don't want to have the same issue again in Quartzite or in the middle of nowhere.

Thanks for sharing your ideas.

Ted

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #4 – August 07, 2015, 03:50:39 pm

Ted,

You will have to decide how much having hot water from running the coach engine is worth to you.

Both in terms of cost of a new water heater and the labor to install it.

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #5 – August 07, 2015, 04:49:43 pm

Ted,
Sorry to hear about your continuing issues. If the water heater doesn't have any potable water leaks, bypassing would at least let you choose when to tackle the replacement of your 15 year old unit. The best place to bypass it would be back at the engine, but unfortunately, I don't know where the Motoraid loop originates. There is also the feed for the dash heater back there... not sure of anything else that might be using similar sized heater hoses back there either. It would be great if someone on this forum can answer that question. I know Barry and Cindy put in a couple of ball valves for bypassing the dash heater, perhaps they know where the Motored loop is. I need to change out my dash heater core and wish I knew where that is feed from back at the engine because I would like to add some bypass valves to that system. I already did the Motored loop while I had the water heater out when I replaced the old one as part of the bulkhead project. Harbor Freight has a useful tool;
Radiator Hose Pinch-Off Pliers
It has rounded jaws so not to damage the hose. I bought a couple to facilitate the dash heater replacement... Unfortunately, from the water heater compartment, you can only get at one of the hoses... the one that the valve is in. The other one, on our coach anyway, disappeared from the top of the water heater and went back towards the engine. Sorry I don't have more info, but if I remember something else, I will post it...
Don

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #6 – August 07, 2015, 06:35:20 pm

Ted,
If it were me I would plug both hoses. These hoses TEE into the hoses that run to the dash. I would leave it that way until it's time for a new water heater. Mine lasted for 15 years until a corrosion leak in the tank wall.

In terms of gaining access to the back of the water heater the only way I will do it now is to pull the water heater. It's not impossible to leave it in-place, but you need to have very long and limber arms. I would search the forum on the topic of removing/replacing the water heater to see what details others have posted in the past.

I happened to pull my water heater recently and I second the opinion of Don to use pinch-off pliers or drain the engine coolant. I used C clamps and tried to work quickly but it was a mess. Even after I plugged the ends one still leaked an amazing amount for something with a hose clamp around it. I ended up cut off an inch of hose and re-plugging. I guess the inside surface of the hose was damaged. It's also a good idea to make sure no residual pressure is in the system by popping off the radiator cap. I just ran out to the shop and measured the OD of the heater pipe that the hose slides over: 5/8" OD. To plug up the hoses I used two 1/2" copper slip pipe caps - they measure about .7" on the OD.
I would not try to use the valve as one of the plugs - I think it would seep coolant.

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #7 – August 07, 2015, 06:47:48 pm

I second Don and Johns advice for using the pinch off pliers. Way better than vice grips and don't damage the hoses

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #8 – August 07, 2015, 07:09:37 pm

Propane hot water tank motor-aid is not a necessity and if the only problem is leaking coolant why not just bypass the heater. Motor aid may even overheat the water beyond safe temperatures.
Some even replace heater without motor aid feature.
If it takes removal of heater to close off motor aid, I would recommend replacing the heater rather than putting back a 15 year old heater.

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #9 – August 07, 2015, 07:13:28 pm

I second that idea... it is a royal pain to remove and replace the water heater, which is why I replaced a working 14 year old one when I did the bulkheads rebuild project...
Don

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – August 07, 2015, 07:09:37 pm

If it takes removal of heater to close off motor aid, I would recommend replacing the heater rather than putting back a 15 year old heater.

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #10 – August 07, 2015, 07:46:38 pm

Replaced mine while I was at Bern'd for 2 weeks with the exact model that came with the coach from FT parts and it did not have electric element or motor aid. Was it a option for the electric and motor aid?

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #11 – August 07, 2015, 10:05:28 pm

I would always replace a propane only water heater with a new Atwood electric / propane heater. Our coach was built with propane only. We ran an extension cord to heater, plugging it in to an existing bay outlet that is not on the inverter. New electric Atwood uses a rear mounted electric probe that is relay powered using the same front circuit board that also controls the propane gas valve. We bought our hot water tank on the Internet.

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #12 – August 08, 2015, 10:37:08 am

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I came to the same conclusion and will be replacing the 15 year old water heater. We have the Atwood 10 gallon 3 way and I will look for the updated version of the same. Atwood factory is in northern Indiana, close to where we are and on the way to HWH ( traveling shop to shop.......what an idea....lol). I will contact Atwood for recommendations about the water heater and installation. I have heard good things about getting work done in that area and since we have family here in Cincinnati and come back yearly, it might be good to try something closer.

Anyone have experience in northern Indiana for work??

Thanks again all- this will get resolved so then we can go west.

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #13 – August 08, 2015, 11:01:00 am

Ted,
The newer generation of Atwood 3 ways are a direct replacement with a couple of exceptions. 1.) You will want to save the vent grill from your old one and transfer to the new one (assuming the 2001 is like the 99' in this respect). The new metal door will have a flatter vent grill insert because they are generally even with the outside surface of the coach body whereas on our coaches, the water heater is more deeply recessed and the grill is raised to be just proud of the grill sized cut out on the compartment door. That is the easy one... 2.) The control board now uses a relay and you will need to run a new wire (just one, since you can use the same ground). The switch panel supplied with the water heater will have two switches, one for the propane and one to control the heating element. If you don't want to use that panel (some might say they look a little cheesy...

), or you don't want to run the extra wire (that can be a pain), you can tie the control wires for the electric and the propane together and use the same switch. Then if you want to run on propane while on shore power (say someone is dropping you a 15 or 20 amp cord and you are driveway camping), just turn off the switch at the base of the bed to keep the electric element from sucking power. Many have done this... I did at first, but then I ran a wire and added a FOT switch (the one from the unused tv antenna amplifier). I hope that helps...
Don

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #14 – August 08, 2015, 12:42:25 pm

I will give you a bit of advice regarding the Atwood water heater. Make sure that the shroud that goes around the propane exhaust port extends all the way to the front of the grill so that it vents to the outside air. The heat is hot enough that it will melt the plexiglass that FT used to install the water heater door and you will end up having to replace that top plexiglass piece.

This will probably involve having to use a piece of sheet metal added to your shroud since the shroud wasn't long enough to slide forward to cover the distance on my unit.

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #15 – August 08, 2015, 01:09:39 pm

If you are getting ready to go on a trip and are pressed for time a quick fix is just remove the heater hoses from the engine and install a loop of the same size hose between the inlet and outlet. Have the loop ready with clamps so that when you remove the hoses you won't loose much coolant. After draining the hoses connect them together with a fitting to keep out dirt.

I believe the engine heater on the hot water tank is mounted on the outside as a method to prevent any contamination of the fresh hot water. You may find that the leak is just from a hose or loose clamp.

Foretravel Owners' Forum For owners and Fans of Foretravel Motorcoaches September 11, 2025 ...

Motor aide leak- still

August 07, 2015, 10:37:42 am

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #1 – August 07, 2015, 12:10:36 pm

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #2 – August 07, 2015, 01:06:15 pm

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #3 – August 07, 2015, 03:19:21 pm

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #4 – August 07, 2015, 03:50:39 pm

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #5 – August 07, 2015, 04:49:43 pm

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #6 – August 07, 2015, 06:35:20 pm

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #7 – August 07, 2015, 06:47:48 pm

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #8 – August 07, 2015, 07:09:37 pm

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #9 – August 07, 2015, 07:13:28 pm

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #10 – August 07, 2015, 07:46:38 pm

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #11 – August 07, 2015, 10:05:28 pm

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #12 – August 08, 2015, 10:37:08 am

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #13 – August 08, 2015, 11:01:00 am

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #14 – August 08, 2015, 12:42:25 pm

Re: Motor aide leak- still

Reply #15 – August 08, 2015, 01:09:39 pm

Affiliate Notice