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Topic: Lift pump on u225 (Read 925 times) previous topic - next topic

Lift pump on u225

Engine wzs hard to start today when we headed out for the weekend. Stopped at our friendly mechanic and changed the fuel filter but now it isn't startimg at all.

No leaks. No fuel getting to injectors.

Can't find the lift pump. Is there one? Anyone know where it is?

Crzig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: Lift pump on u225

Reply #1 –
Craig sorry you're having problems.

does it have a fuel shutoff solenoid like the 8.3?
Doug W.
96 36' U270 CSGI #4946
04 Toyota Tacoma 4x4
PNW

Re: Lift pump on u225

Reply #2 –
I don't think so but we're not getting fuel that far anywsy.

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: Lift pump on u225

Reply #3 –
I think it does have a fuel shutoff solenoid.
should be able to hear or see it click when someone operates the ignition switch. I would think it would be on the curb side of engine.
Doug W.
96 36' U270 CSGI #4946
04 Toyota Tacoma 4x4
PNW

Re: Lift pump on u225

Reply #4 –
Quote from: wa_desert_rat –
Can't find the lift pump. Is there one? Anyone know where it is?
Craig,

If you have the 5.9 Cummins, I think the lift pump is in the same location as on the 8.3.  If so, it will be on the passenger side of the engine block, half way down, mid-way back, in close proximity to the secondary fuel filter.  See photos:
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Lift pump on u225

Reply #5 –
You or your mechanic knows that you have to pump the lift pump for a long time to get all the fuel back up to the injection pump, right?  You need to keep pumping by hand until you hear the squeaking of the fuel return overflow valve happening.

Its a big enough PITA to make me consider ditching the on engine fuel pump and installing a FASS type pump.
Robert
Build # 5304
1998 34' U270 Cummins 6CTA8.3

Re: Lift pump on u225

Reply #6 –
I've only changed fuel filters once, but didn't need to use the priming pump at all.  I ran the engine until fully warmed up, shut it down, changed primary filter.  Started engine (no problem), ran until it smoothed out, shut it down.  Changed secondary filter, started engine (no problem), ran it until it smoothed out, shut it down.  Easy! 8)
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Lift pump on u225

Reply #7 –
Craig, this is a stupid question but is it the right filter used?? Reason being I had that happen when I used to get service done at local DD shop and  they had put wrong filter on and air was being sucked in. Would you believe it but a year later they did the same thing and that is when I said I am doing my own servicing from now on.
JohnH
Coachless, now use aircraft. 2003 Ford Travelair TC280 class C. Super shape. Just for 1 yr .
1994 Ford E350 ClassC,total renovation inside and out. Now sold.
2000 U295  36' Cummins 350 c/w Banks Stinger, Resonator upgrade,Solar, LED lites.Residential fridge with slide out pantry. Build 5674. Sold
ex 92 GV 022C ored Cummins. Sold
ex 95 GV240 cat 3116. Sold
2017 Mini cooper s & 2016 land Rover LR2 HSE  LUX.
jhaygarth@aol.com    SKP #130098
treat everyone as you would like to be.

Re: Lift pump on u225

Reply #8 –
Hard to answer without knowing what engine is in your coach.

Re: Lift pump on u225

Reply #9 –
The U225 has a Cummins B 230 HP 5.9 liter.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Lift pump on u225

Reply #10 –
Well as it turns out, there is no lift pump on a U225. We got this info directly from one of the Foretravel guys the mechanic called on the phone. The main filter was clearly dirty but the fine filter was clear and clean. We just hit the prime lever until we got fuel squirting out the filter top, then I cranked it over.

Where previously the engine would start then die over and over, this time it had that classic "almost enough fuel to run" sound and finally caught and was good. We went south 38 miles to escape the smoke (fat chance!) but there is zero cell phone service there so I didn't have a chance to tell the end of the story until now.

Since there is no lift pump the Bosch pump has to do all the action and I'm thinking about installing something to help it out a bit.

Thanks for the responses, you guys. Another bit of data to put into the bank.

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: Lift pump on u225

Reply #11 –
I've never heard of a Cummins B engine without a lift pump.  Check the rear of the engine on the injection pump side, or just follow the input fuel line upstream.
Regards,
Brett

'99 42' Foretravel Xtreme
'14 Brown Motorsports Stacker
'05 Chevy SSR
'02 BMW R1150R

Re: Lift pump on u225

Reply #12 –
Quote from: wa_desert_rat –
there is no lift pump on a U225.

We just hit the prime lever until we got fuel squirting out the filter top, then I cranked it over.

"There is no lift pump...".  This is not correct.  The Bosch injection pump cannot pull (suck) fuel all the way from the fuel tank, through 2 filters,  and supply the injection system pressure.  Simply not possible.  It IS possible that the stock lift pump (also called a fuel transfer pump) was removed and a aftermarket in-line electric fuel pump was installed somewhere between the tank and the primary fuel filter.

"We just hit the prime lever...".  If you do not have a lift pump, then where is this "prime lever" located?

I was wrong in my earlier post above - it seems the early 5.9 Cummins engines do not use the same type lift pump as my 8.3 engine.  See the photos below.  Is this the "prime lever" you used to make fuel squirt out the filter top?  This is the lift pump used on the 1988 - 1993 5.9L 6BT Cummins.  This is a diaphragm pump, just like the mechanical fuel pumps used on gas engines.  If the rubber diaphragm starts to deteriorate or gets a small hole in it, the pump will get progressively "weaker" until it finally fails completely.  Before this happens, you will usually see fuel leaking out the "weep hole" on the bottom of the pump, but in some cases the fuel can leak into the engine oil supply, diluting the oil (not good).

Fuel Transfer Pump - 89-93 Dodge 5.9L B-Series 12V
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Lift pump on u225

Reply #13 –
Thanks Chuck... that makes sense. That is clearly the "prime lever" that we had to push over and over to get fuel flowing without air bubbles in it. We certainly got a good reaction from it as it would squirt fuel up about 3 or 4 inches with every pump.

When this started happening I was afraid that we had gotten some "growy things" in the fuel supply but other than the first (big) filter being somewhat dirty (and nothing in the second but clean fuel) there was no sign of the bacteria growth.

I have had the same engine in two Dodge pickup trucks but only had to use the priming lever once about 20 years ago on the 1-ton farm truck.

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: Lift pump on u225

Reply #14 –
Manual prime lever is probably the lift fuel pump.  When we changed ours we had much smoother power to take off an drive up hills.  We had no idea our injector pump was starving under some conditions.
Lift pumps have different names.
 

Re: Lift pump on u225

Reply #15 –
my 1992 U225 with the cummins has the lift pump in the fuel tank. The previous owner said he had to replace it. I can hear it thumping quietly when I fuel up and leave the engine running. I hope that helps.
1994 u300