Stubborn Powertech Generator

Topic: Stubborn Powertech Generator (Read 3813 times) previous topic - next topic

Stubborn Powertech Generator

June 23, 2015, 11:25:03 pm

I'm having a problem with my Powertech 10K Generator. I'll call the factory in the morning but was wondering if any members might have any suggestions. A brief history of problems with the generator is as follows. When we bought the coach the generator would start but not continue to run. The problem was a bad supply fuel line from the tank. Replaced the line and the generator ran fine for about 8 months. In January it again would start but not run. Traced the problem to a bad temperature sending unit. Replaced the sending unit and the unit ran fine for last 5 months. Yesterday the generator had been running for about 2 hours when it shutdown. It will start but almost immediately shuts down. When you reset the generator ON/OFF switch the generator will start and run for 10 seconds and shuts down. It will restart in 20 seconds and run for 10 seconds. It will repeat this cycle 3 times and then gives a RED light for OVERCRANK. Lifetime hours on the generator is1392. It is NOT the temperature sending unit this time. Any help out there.

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #1 – June 24, 2015, 12:41:01 am

The Overcrank light on simply means that the controller thinks the engine has not started after a preset number of trials.

If there are no other lights on while the generator tries to start, I would first check to see if the fuel pump is delivering pressure - disconnect the output and crank while it squirts into a pail. Although you replaced the fuel lines, still good to check for air in fuel delivery. Then I would look for loose/broken wires from engine & sensors to the control unit and control unit to dash switch and autostart module. Also check for loose connection to the fuel shutoff solenoid or possibly a defective solenoid.

You might start looking for bad connections by opening the control box - either on the generator or remote under the drivers seat and checking the controller (probably DynaGen ES52) for loose wires. The control board has connecting wires secured with small screws, and they can come loose.

If no loose/broken wires, and fuel is OK and all sensors and shutoff solenoid & connections are good, might be time to replace the controller (Ours needed replacing several years ago.)

The ES52 is readily available from sources other than Power Tech (and at 1/2 the price). Google DynaGen ES52 for sources.

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #2 – June 24, 2015, 02:12:15 am

I second the fuel pump suggestion. Mine did that on my 96 coach. Pump would get unit to start, but didn't have enough output to keep it running at full RPM

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #3 – June 24, 2015, 10:00:33 am

More than likely the fuel pump or fuel filter, especially the small carb filter attached to the fuel pump.

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #4 – June 24, 2015, 05:32:08 pm

Check Oil level. If it is low, unit will not run long.

Check to see if cooling fan is running once started. As soon as unit is started fan should be running. If fan is not running, gen will run until it hits high temp limit and then shut down. Unit will restart but once running it will shut back down.

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #5 – June 25, 2015, 01:07:33 am

Our problem wasn't identical, but it it did involve the ES52 control board. Maybe it would be useful to share my experience. The control panel/board is mounted directly on our generator, but it may be elsewhere on your coach. It has two relays that you have to remove the control panel cover to see. The relays are identical, but perform different functions. One of them powers up the fuel pump, and the other cranks the generator's starter motor. On our coach, when the problem surfaced, the fuel pump would run, but the thing never cranked... three tries, and the over crank light came on. It would work once in dozen tries or so, but we couldn't rely on it starting when we needed it.We were at the FMCA family reunion and I decided to figure it out because it was hot and I really wanted to run the A/C. Well, I took the ES52 out loose from the metal cover after removing the 4 screws that hold the cover on, I removed two diagonally opposed screws on the front of the panel next to the lights. The panel came loose enough to remove the connectors (good idea to take pictures), when I swapped the relays, the fuel pump wouldn't run. I took the relay apart and cleaned the contacts, put it back in and it then started every time. I had already ordered a new ES52, but the relays are available separately for about $5 apiece. Taking it apart and cleaning might work but it is difficult to do without damaging the case. I taped it back together. I bought 2 new relays to have spares. So you might try swapping the relays, and if it starts, then maybe the relay controlling the fuel pump heats up and breaks contact, stopping the fuel pump. Just a thought... here is a picture of the back of the ES52 and the relays are easily visible.

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #6 – June 25, 2015, 02:50:22 pm

If you get past the fueling check and start on electrics, remember the big connector at the rear of the genny. The wiring bends whenever the unit is pulled out for service. At your age and hours you can get connection failures at this connector. When I've found a problem there I've bypassed the connector and was good to go.

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #7 – July 06, 2015, 09:54:25 pm

Well, I was kinda hoping you guys were right and it would be some type of fuel problem. It wasn't. Luckily not major and inexpensive to repair, but hard to find. If you look at the picture above, The small two wire connector with the black and white wire verifies to the controller that the generator is running and PRODUCING A/C current. One wire connected to ground and the other to the hot side lug on the main generator A/C circuit breaker. The wire which is a very small gauge had broken at the terminal at the breaker.

Nick

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #8 – July 06, 2015, 10:08:26 pm

We had the same problem Nick. We thought at first it was the transfer switch, then Ben looked around and found the broken wire. Not an expensive fix, just an aggravating one.

Bonnie and Ben Harris
1999 U320

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #9 – July 07, 2015, 09:03:57 pm

Spent a goodly chunk of cash at MOT tracking down a similar problem. Ended up with a new fuel pump, pump solenoid and starter switch that was clearly worn out. In amongst all the parts it was discovered that a little yellow wire had come loose in the control box. This was most likely the cause of the intermittent issues when the coach was rolling/jostling. Ultimately caused us to wear out the other parts trying to restart and yadayadayada.

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #10 – July 08, 2015, 09:59:47 am

There is also a low oil pressure shut down switch.

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #11 – July 08, 2015, 03:37:08 pm

Quote from: Gayland Baasch – July 08, 2015, 09:59:47 am

There is also a low oil pressure shut down switch.

And a High Temperature shut down switch.

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #12 – July 08, 2015, 09:11:31 pm

Nick / Ben & Bonnie,

Susan & I have been following this thread with interest because we're currently trying to diagnose two generator problems. The first was overheat shutdown. We discovered we not only have a switch for the gen radiator fan, but what appears (?) to be a circuit breaker for it. So, not fuel or filters for us either.

The new problem is 120V shows on Line 2 of our panel after generator start; low single-digits (4, 5, 6V) sink to 0 on Line 1. No evidence in the coach of power to any outlet (no, I haven't yet checked the black FT owner's manual for exactly what's on Line 1 and what's on Line 2 other than air conditioners, and I didn't want to risk loading up an already struggling generator).

Our generator is bolted down, so movement affecting wires and hoses shouldn't be an issue? But over the road, vibration could, we suppose. And the failure happened dramatically on a 100 degree day, which has caused some to suggest diode, rectifier, and more (which unfortunately is over my head).

Thoughts welcomed, but don't want to extend a thread that seems to be finished.

Richard & Susan

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #13 – July 08, 2015, 10:00:51 pm

Richard and Susan, We have the exact same coach as you, 1999 U320 with slide. We were not getting correct power on either line, it would read 79, 110, 40, it was all over the place. We found a broken wire at the circuit breaker near the bottom. We had to remove the rubber covering that was near the circuit breaker to find the broken wire. This may be something for you to check.

Also we thought you guys were members of our Mid Atlantic Chapter. If you get a chance to come to our fall rally Oct 1-4 in Winchester, we would love to meet you. You will find lots of helpful folks at the rally.

Ben and Bonnie
1999 U320

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #14 – July 08, 2015, 10:57:51 pm

Ben & Bonnie,

Thanks so much for the pointer re: the broken wire near the circuit breaker. That's something I might be capable of finding/diagnosing.

And yes, happily we are members of the Mid Atlantic Chapter — and are looking forward to meeting you and others! We attended the Bainbridge, GA, rally hosted by the Florida and South Central chapters, so now it's time to get acquainted with our actual neighbors geographically! We just passed through Winchester recently on our way to Rhode Island for a wedding. If we can possibly make it back in October, we'll be there. If we aren't able (both still working), then perhaps at GrandVention?

With thanks and looking forward to meeting in a more personal way than the Forum, as wonderful as it is!

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #15 – July 15, 2015, 04:16:14 pm

Well, the generator has been running fine the last couple of weeks, so all is well as long as we can run the roof top A/C's while on the road in this 100 degree weather.

To summarize my experience with the Powertech Diesel generators, I would submit the following. The small diesel engines from Kubota and Isuzu are very dependable and almost bullet proof. The Generator ends are very dependable and give very few problems. The problems are usually simple and fairly inexpensive to fix. The hardest part of correcting the problems is troubleshooting the problem or finding someone knowledgeable enough to help you find the problem.

As noted above, we have had three different occasions where the generator would not run. First, a bad fuel line letting air in the system. Second, a bad temperature sending unit. Third, a broken wire at the back of the main circuit breaker. The cost of repair for all three problems was far less than $100.00.

Most of the problems you will have will be with the safety systems that are there to protect the engine, such as high temperature or low oil pressure, or simply broken wires or loose connections.

Nick

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #16 – July 15, 2015, 06:41:27 pm

In the past few years, I have had my Powertech over temp and low oil pressure switches fail, a wire to the remote fan break at the circuit breaker, and the fan circuit breaker itself fail.

In addition, the adhesive holding insulation to the inside of the Isuzu fan belt shroud failed. The insulation fell to the bottom of the shroud jamming the vibration dampner causing it to separate and the fan belt to shred. But considering that the generator has 4800 hours, it is hard to complain too much. Hopefully all is good to go now.

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #17 – July 16, 2015, 01:44:17 pm

Quote from: Nick Cagle – July 15, 2015, 04:16:14 pm

Most of the problems you will have will be with the safety systems that are there to protect the engine, such as high temperature or low oil pressure, or simply broken wires or loose connections.

Nick,

Thanks — the post your concluded with that note was very helpful. I just posted elsewhere on Foretravel Tech Talk re: a generator problem we're experiencing. Should have added it to this thread, perhaps. Sounds like it could be one of those issues.

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #18 – July 16, 2015, 06:24:19 pm

Quote from: Nick Cagle – July 15, 2015, 04:16:14 pm

First, a bad fuel line letting air in the system.

Nick

I suggest that you check the fuel lines to the "big engine" in the back of your vehicle. Our Powertech generator ceased to run reliably when the fuel lines failed. While the generator fuel lines were being replaced, FOT found that the fuel lines to the Cummins engine were cracking and beginning to seep fuel. That meant they would soon allow air into the lines. The original fuel lines were all installed at the same time and were failing at about the same time. According to the age of your coach, it may be time for replacement of ALL the fuel lines.

A failing generator is an inconvenience. A failure to provide fuel to the "big engine" is a "show stopper." A scheduled replacement of fuel lines at one of the good shops in NAC is WAY cheaper and easier than an unscheduled replacement on the road.

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #19 – July 17, 2015, 01:44:42 am

Say that again! We had a startup stumble issue and James @ Xtreme got me to Berndt's shop. My lines were in bad shape. I didn't save any scrap but here's a shot of the lines BR's guys removed.

Full day job. Glad to have it behind me.

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #20 – September 12, 2015, 05:36:14 pm

The Generator gremlins took a break for awhile but reared their ugly heads again. While at the Darlington Nascar race and dry camping we lost 120v power. Generator was running fine and continued to run after power was lost.. Trouble shooting showed 120v on one line at the transfer switch and zero volt on the other line. Checking the voltage at the generator main circuit breaker showed 120v on both circuits at both sides of the breaker. Located and opened electrical junction box where 6-3 wires from coach are connected to 6-3 wires from generator.. No power measured on one line at junction box. Trouble is definitely between the junction box and the generator circuit breaker. Found the wire broken under the shrink wrap at the connector at the circuit breaker. AND READING BACK, I'M NOT THE FIRST ONE TO HAVE THIS PROBLEM. Anyway, fixed it and that's another cheap fix. Just don't value all that trouble shooting time.

Nick

4

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #21 – September 12, 2015, 08:07:13 pm

At least you didn't get the "Darlington Stripe"!!!

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #22 – September 29, 2015, 05:35:10 pm

I have a 98 270 with a PTS IDL 8000 Ft Power Tech gen powered by a 3LB1PV Isuzu 4-cycle in line 3 cylinder. On a 3500 mile trip to the UP I was running my two A/C and would get a studder on the Isuzu that would drop the cycles and voltage just into low range ( 108 volts).
I've never had the arrestor plug out of the muffler (and having difficulty getting the brass plug out. Could it be as simple as carbon build up in the muffler? I recently lube oil / filtered the Isuzu.
I am concerned the voltage drop will damage the a/c etc.

Re: Stubborn Powertech Generator

Reply #23 – September 29, 2015, 07:13:52 pm

Paul, We have the same gen, but unaware of what or where is a Spark Arrestor and what does it do? We do have a Progressive Industries EMS wired after the transfer switch that can protect our roof a/c when gen lowers voltage.
On a separate issue we did have our gen put out 160 AC volts for a moment, then back to normal, than later repeat the high voltage, which caused EMS to open, but still display the high voltage. Power Tech told us it is a symptom of a failing voltage regulator, which we replaced and the high voltage issue is gone.

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