Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

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Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

December 26, 2015, 11:49:44 am

I just went down to Houston and got my Sheppard M100 power steering box pulled out and sent over and rebuilt and reinstalled.
After driving it home It seems to me that it could be termed power assist steering right now versus power steering.
It is noticeably harder to turn than before. It is also a little slow to non existent at times to return to center in a turn. I actually have to assist it to do so. Of course I picked it up at closing Wednesday so I have not been able to contact the people involved in the rebuild/install.
I am hoping to hear from some of you who have had yours rebuilt. Did it seem anything like I described when you drove yours right after having it rebuilt? Maybe it needs to wear in through use?
I went through the list on the beam alarm website for diagnosing problems and the only thing I can come up with is maybe air in the lines. Is it possible for it to have air in the lines after driving it 225 miles home?
When they rebuilt it and sent it back over to the shop to be reinstalled the shop putting it in said it was leaking out of the plate on the opposite side of the pitman arm shaft. They said the rebuilder forgot to put an o ring in there. The shop that no installed it pulled the plate off and installed the o ring to fix the leak after the rebuild. I fear that it may be a problem with the rebuilding of it, if something that obvious was forgotten in the rebuild. But I can't say that is it for sure. I am not sure if it is an install problem or rebuild problem at this point. It drove excellent before I had this done,the only problem was a leaking seal on the output shaft.
The good news the leak is fixed. The bad news at the moment it is now a handful to drive.
Any input or suggestions of things to check would be appreciated.
Thanks Randy

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #1 – December 26, 2015, 11:55:46 am

Randy, had ours done at MOT a couple months ago. It was just a tad stiffer than before, but had a lot less play in it. Have not had a problem with it coming back to center.
The one thing you really need to make sure of is the settings on the left right travel. If you don't have that correct you can steer past the limits and blow the seals (at least that's my understanding).
Best of luck.
Len

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #2 – December 26, 2015, 12:57:40 pm

Your description seems to match how mine drives.

Very little camber in the front axle specs which helps the return to center part of the steering. Plus a lot of tire stick to the ground.

Alignment can alter this feeling quite a bit.

Any dead spot? Loose wheel bearings influence that quite a lot

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #3 – December 26, 2015, 01:08:20 pm

Who did the rebuild?

Here is the company many RV suspension shops use: Red-Head Steering Gears - Custom Rebuilt Steering Gear Boxes in USA

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #4 – December 26, 2015, 01:20:23 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – December 26, 2015, 12:57:40 pm

Your description seems to match how mine drives.

Very little camber in the front axle specs which helps the return to center part of the steering. Plus a lot of tire stick to the ground.

Alignment can alter this feeling quite a bit.

Bob,

Actually you are talking about CASTER, not camber that helps with tracking and return to center. Caster is adjustable with shims, camber only by bending the axle on straight axles.

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #5 – December 26, 2015, 01:28:09 pm

Ditto; with Red Head.

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #6 – December 26, 2015, 01:55:25 pm

Hi moss9994,

I'm sorry to hear of your steering gear rebuild problems. I had my rebuilt recently and afterward I noticed no play (boy was I happy) though there was some turning tightness that was not there before. During the rebuilding process, they place slightly larger ball bearings inside. This is the tricky part because these bearing s are available in 0.5 MM increments sizes - at least my re builder told me. If they chose bearings that are too big then you may have excessive steering tightness. Normally this dissipates somewhat as they slowly wear in over the next few hundred miles (as mine did or I have gotten used to it).

If you find it way too tight then perhaps they over sized the bearings. You might drive it for a while before going through the hassle of sending it back.

RedHead supposedly one of the best places to have these done. Have you called them to get their ideas? Hopefully the temporary lack of fluid did not damage anything.

Jim

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #7 – December 26, 2015, 03:53:22 pm

Had the steering gear replaced with a Shepard factory rebuilt, it had about the same thing going on as yours. It also started leaking in about 100 miles. It was replaced with another from Shepard that worked like it should.

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #8 – December 26, 2015, 07:03:54 pm

It drove great before the steering box was rebuilt, it just had a leak. The motorhome had low miles for the year model around 52,000.
I had found the leak while trying to figure out if I could adjust the headlights to improve visibility at night.
We are leaving to go on a trip and I didn't think I had time to pull it off and send it to Red Head.
Since it sounds like others have experienced this I will drive it and hopefully it will get better.
I had it rebuilt at Chalk's in Houston.
Bbeean, your second replacement from Sheppard turned easier than the first one?

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #9 – December 26, 2015, 07:33:34 pm

Sounds like it's too tight and should be adjusted looser.
Loosen the lock nut and adjust it by turning the adjustment screw CCW. Do it 1/8 of a turn at a time and road test after each
adjustment. To tighten go CW.

I had one rebuilt at Landmark in Knoxville, Tennessee a few years ago, and it was perfect afterward

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #10 – December 26, 2015, 07:39:44 pm

Quote from: Traveling Man – December 26, 2015, 07:33:34 pm

Sounds like it's too tight and should be adjusted looser.
Loosen the lock nut and adjust by turning the adjustment screw CCW. Do it 1/8 of a turn at a time and road test after each
adjustment. To tighten go CW.

I had one rebuilt at Landmark in Knoxville, Tennessee a few years ago, and it was perfect afterward

WAIT. There are NO external adjustments on the Sheppard M100 box. All "adjustments" have to do with internal bearing tolerances.

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #11 – December 26, 2015, 07:57:01 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 26, 2015, 07:39:44 pm

WAIT. There are NO external adjustments on the Sheppard M100 box. All "adjustments" have to do with internal bearing tolerances.

Sorry about that. I missed the M100 and now I'm hoping I don't have one on my rig. I was planning to crawl under mine tomorrow and do what I described......................but maybe not. Too tired to go out and look tonight.

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #12 – December 26, 2015, 10:02:52 pm

Sounds like something is to tight inside the box.
Had mine done last June... it drives the same as before... Nice and easy very positive.
I had a shop in Brownville CA pull the box and I took it down to Mark @ Straight Line Steering in San Jose. CA. Straight Line Steering Home. They did all our steering box rebuilds and pumps when I had the Peterbilt dealership in Redding CA. ..... Normal 24 hour turnaround with a new Shepard selector shaft..(had it in stock) My cost out the door $640.00 (Paid dealer cost)

Mark had some very interesting comments about our Sheppard boxes..

1. There is a 50/50 chance just replacing the seals will most likely cure the leakage for only a few years...... what happens is the old seals become hard from lack of use thus wearing a grove in the shafts, that why we have a leaking box. New seals may not wear-in to the old grove. A good rebuilder will send the worn shafts out for the seal surface to be spray welded and machined or the part replaced. this will blow the 24 hr turn unless the shop has the rebuilt / new parts in stock.

2. Rebuild your box.. do not exchange if at all posable.. the Sheppard M100 box is common to Refuse Trucks. If you exchange your box the rebuilt exchange you are going to get most likely has been tugging and pulling a 18,000 lb front axle for 400,000 plus miles of pot holed city roads before being rebuilt.

I now know why we see so many rebuild failures...

He also will rebuild our FAN MOTORS and pumps........ has rebuilt exchange on the shelf. Also has replacement motors...

As a side note.. when I dropped off my box there were 4 work orders for Red Head in Seattle hanging in the rack.. I asked Mark he said he has worked with them for years, they send him all their odd heavy duty rebuilds... he is also supplies them all their Sheppard parts....

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #13 – December 27, 2015, 12:24:42 am

Did you check to see if there is interference someplace in the steering system?
Something rubbing on the pitman arm, steering shaft (inside and outside), drag link?

Are you confident in the installer?
Did they replace the pitman arm on the shaft at the proper "keyed" (actually no key, just a certain spline location that allows full seating of the pitman arm) position. The pitman arm will go on the steering box shaft but it will NOT seat all the way in. The pitman arm will then be out further on the shaft (only engaging about 1/2" of spline) and so will the drag link. It could be rubbing on something, worse yet it would NOT be seated enough on the steering shaft and could break loose with a resulting total lack of steering control.

I would expect any air in the system would be purged after a few lock to lock turns of the steering wheel.
I'm not sure its possible but, could the hydraulic lines at the steering box be reversed?
Is your hydraulic tank filled with 15w-40w engine oil?

My re-built RedHead is tight but in a good way, always returns to neutral with little or no effort.

I would get to the bottom of this problem BEFORE your trip. Finding out after a loss of control that the box or the installation was bad or incorrectly done is a dangerous way to learn for you, and others on the road.

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #14 – December 27, 2015, 08:31:56 am

Moss9994, yes the replacement gear operated as it should, and all is good a year later. I agree with others about getting that one right before leaving on a long trip. Being broke down on the road is no fun.

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #15 – December 27, 2015, 01:28:53 pm

Quote from: Ted H – December 26, 2015, 10:02:52 pm

I had a shop in Brownville CA pull the box and I took it down to Mark @ Straight Line Steering in San Jose. CA. Straight Line Steering Home.

Ted thanks for the reference. Good info to know!

see ya
ken

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #16 – December 28, 2015, 09:21:44 am

Ted that's good info and contact. Appreciate it. Any idea if Straight Line makes any effort to "blueprint" as Red Head is said to do?

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #17 – December 28, 2015, 10:11:00 am

Quote from: Ted H – December 26, 2015, 10:02:52 pm

2. Rebuild your box.. do not exchange if at all posable.. the Sheppard M100 box is common to Refuse Trucks. If you exchange your box the rebuilt exchange you are going to get most likely has been tugging and pulling a 18,000 lb front axle for 400,000 plus miles of pot holed city roads before being rebuilt.

Maybe even use an engraving tool to personalize it to be sure to get it back?

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #18 – December 28, 2015, 06:41:27 pm

After talking with Chris at Chalk's a couple of times he walked me thru troubleshooting what could be causing it. I would have to say they went above and beyond trying to troubleshoot the issue with me on the phone. It certainly wasn't something they did. They just helped me solve the issue.
After loosening the steering shaft in the motorhome and pulling up slightly and retightening it, bingo it would return to center after a turn. Aparantly on mine it was binding just enough to cause a problem.
I had called the place that installed the box to see if they had any ideas first. The manager got on the phone and went on a non stop tirade about what a terrible customer I was. Somewhere in his rant he explained that if there were any problems it was between Chalk's and I.
I have never had anybody talk to me the way he did. Of course it turned out to be something they did, funny how that works. The only bright spot of dealing with them is I don't have to anymore.
Thanks to the people at Chalks taking the time to help a customer with an issue. It saved a vacation.
Also thanks for all of the replies to my post. It certainly is nice to come on a forum and get good advice.

Re: Sheppard Power steering rebuild question

Reply #19 – December 28, 2015, 09:40:08 pm

Had mine rebuild or replaced because it was leaking. After replacement, steering was 100% better then before.

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