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Topic: Lift Pump Fault (VMS 200 EL) ISL 400 Cummins (Read 1570 times) previous topic - next topic

Lift Pump Fault (VMS 200 EL) ISL 400 Cummins

Back in January, i had a new fuel lift pump installed on to our Cummins ISL 400 & since then we drove it about 400 mil without any issues.
Last week I had Cummins (Forth Worth, TX) change motor oil & filters. They also removed the oil pan (it was leaking) and replaced the seal. To do this they also had to remove & reinstall the engine cross member. I brought her home Wednesday, drove it about 20 mil from Cummins to home ... it was all good.
Thursday morning when i drove her about 10 mil, check engine light came on and VMS 200 EL reported "lift pump fault"
Well this evening i brought her home, in order to take her to Cummins in the morning but from storage place to home about 15 mil there was no check engine light and no fault code of any kind. It was running very nicely and shifting and all that without any issues.
I started her at the storage place, after several minutes & moving her out from her spot, I shut the engine for 8-10 min. Then drove her about 12 mil & shut the engine. I had to stop at grocery store (20 min) on my way home. Then drove her home about 3 mil and parked. No check engine, no fault code.
I am not sure what/if anything to look / hunt .... I don't know what Cummins can do /check ...
Since we purchased her at the end of last November we have gone through and fixed few things and she is running very nicely ... I am not sure if i need to do anything .... until I get another fault code or something happens?
Thank you,
AL
Former 2003 GV U295 (6230) (2015 - 2025)
Former 94 GV U225 (2013-2016)

Re: Lift Pump Fault (VMS 200 EL) ISL 400 Cummins

Reply #1 –
Quote from: propman –

Thursday morning when i drove her about 10 mil, check engine light came on and VMS 200 EL reported "lift pump fault"
Well this evening i brought her home, in order to take her to Cummins in the morning but from storage place to home about 15 mil there was no check engine light and no fault code of any kind.

Can you pull (view) a code history with the VMS 200 (like you can with VMSpc)?  If you get the actual Cummins code we can look it up. 
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Lift Pump Fault (VMS 200 EL) ISL 400 Cummins

Reply #2 –
Hello Al

The VMS200 can report on PGNs (broken out as SPNs aka fault codes) that it receives from the Engines' ECU.  The fault you received is unique as very few engines have a 'digital' sensor to detect the errors of its ways.  Cummins does--and, the last time I looked into this, they were the only mill baker to include one.
They group some SPNs to 'keep it simple' or to aid troubleshooting or...for other reasons...

[I've had to fix this post--my data were screwie the way I originally wrote it. *sorry*  http://www.foreforums.com/smileys/default/kiss.gif Even I have a hard time with this, at times.]

While the SPN is 1075 is used with two sub/fmi codes,  a "Cummins" code for this is just 2065 or 2066 - Error, Electric Lift Pump for Engine Fuel
(This is only seen while using a Cummins scan tool)

This is how it compares:
1075, 3 / 2265: Fuel Priming Pump Control Signal Circuit - Voltage Above Normal or Shorted to High Source
or
1075, 4 / 2266: Fuel Priming Pump Control Signal Circuit - Voltage Below Normal or Shorted to Low Source

1075 is a valid error in that it can report shorting or opening of the pump control.  Most sensors have 3, 4 or 6 codes.  This has, I believe, just two.  I'm not aware of any false alarms regarding this one. 

Its not unusual for the ISL to throw bogus codes--but not this specific one.  A fuel problem may throw may almost unrelated ones.  "Cylinder 18" or "Injector 21" may report as well.  "Unknown component" is another head-scratcher.  That leaves us with the record of the pump throwing that code. Until the pump fails outright, its pretty unlikely you'll have any noticeable symptoms. Its a pretty low-pressure affair so performance-hits may not be noticed until you need to start your engine at the very moment its failing.  Yet, the code was also stored in your ECU at the time and can be scanned by your friendly diesel tech. 

Show him the record your VMS produced. It should relate time, engine RPM and other stats to help relate the conditions at the time.

More discussion can be found HERE 

cheers

Art Renda
Documentation Central
Silverleaf Electronics
(888) 741-0259 
Knowledge is Horsepower

Re: Lift Pump Fault (VMS 200 EL) ISL 400 Cummins

Reply #3 –
          ENGINE HISTORY
73  11  1      LIFT PUMP FAULT
2/25 119830MI    150F  16PL    1444RPM
73  11  1      LIFT PUMP FAULT
2/25 119830MI    150F  0PL    1464RPM

When i scroll up & reported numbers change slightly. RPM is obvious but i have no clue what the other numbers:

73  11  1      LIFT PUMP FAULT
2/25 119827MI    61F  20PL    701RPM

So i understand the lift pump does its job during the starting of the engine. One could be traveling and stop to get diesel and get stuck at the gas station if the lift pump quits working.
I have a new lift pump installed by a reputable place but furthermore by a very experienced Mechanic that I like. I chose to not do this on my own and paid for it ... now it looks like it is a task that i should learn how to do ... if it becomes a problem middle of nowhere :-(

Reading the link Art posted does show some Cummins fault codes ... the numbers  i see from my VMS 200 EL  do not look like to be a Cummins code ... Perhaps I should have taken it to Cummins this morning and have them scan it for me .... Maybe i also need to upgrade VMS 200 EL to PC version ...? and/or get a scan tool?

Thank you,
AL

Former 2003 GV U295 (6230) (2015 - 2025)
Former 94 GV U225 (2013-2016)

Re: Lift Pump Fault (VMS 200 EL) ISL 400 Cummins

Reply #4 –
Quote from: propman –
73 (PID -the device-)
11  (fmi -its problem-)
1  (# of occurances) 
LIFT PUMP FAULT (plain text title/ explanation)
2/25  (date of error)
119827MI  (miles on the clock)
61F  (engine temp)
20PL  (not sure...will find out)
701RPM (engine speed)

Above I was referencing the SPN used on newer coaches using the J1939 engine databus.  Your coach seems to be a '94 ? That would mean its still using the older J1708 SAE standard codes...which explains why you saw a 73 and not a 1075.

The 73 is specifically for the lift pump alrighty. But...if it continues to start normally then, well, it gets less likely. Take a look at this conversation to see what I mean.

cheers

Art Renda
Documentation Central
Silverleaf Electronics
(888) 741-0259 
Knowledge is Horsepower

Re: Lift Pump Fault (VMS 200 EL) ISL 400 Cummins

Reply #5 –
I had a new lift pump installed and they left a washer out, so that's how I got stranded in N Little Rock last year.  Make sure you have no leaks after installation.
Dan & Shirley Stansel
2002 U295 4020 AGDS Build#6054
Towing Buick Enclave & M &  G Braking
Emerald Bay, Lake Palestine, Texas
MC# 16650

Re: Lift Pump Fault (VMS 200 EL) ISL 400 Cummins

Reply #6 –
Dan,
The new Fuel Lift Pump was installed back in January & I ran about 400 miles since then. I check all the time & see no leaks. There was before installing the new Fuel lift pump.
Last week I took it in to Cummins for some kind of a whistling noise that i could not for the life of me figure out on my own, stupid, I was keep looking for something major, where I was not looking or considering simple stuff; well the noise turned out to be simple and took care of it with a new belt & tightening a lose clamp
Here is rest of the repairs from last week at Cummins:
"INSPECTED DRIVE BELTS AND TENSIONERS. ALL CHECKED GOOD. INSPECTED MOTOR MOUNTS AND DRIVE SHAFT. CHECKED GOOD. PRESSURE TESTED CAC. FOUND 1 SMALL LEAK. TIGHTENED CLAMP, LEAK STOPPED. INSPECTED TURBO. TURBO CHECKED GOOD. FOUND NO EXHAUST LEAKS. STARTED ENGINE AND AT HIGH IDLE FOUND THAT THE NOISE WAS BELT FOR HYDRAULIC FAN.
OIL LEAK:
FOUND OIL PAN LEAKING OIL. WILL NEED TO RESEAL PAN. CUSTOMER REQUESTED TO CHANGE OIL AND FILTERS, FUEL FILTERS ALSO. ALSO REPLACE AIR CLEANER.
DRAINED OIL AND COOLENT REMOVED CROSSMEMBER AND LOWER RADIATOR HOSES REMOVED OIL PAN CLEANED PAN AND BLOCK INSTALLED CLEAN OIL PAN WITH NEW GASKET AND SILICONE BLOCK CORNERS INSTALLED CROSSMEMBER AND LOWER RADIATOR HOSES CHANGED OIL FILTER AND FILLED WITH OIL AND REMOVED FUEL FILTERS AND REPLACED WITH NEW ONES CHANGED AIR FILTER WASHED ENGINE BAY RAN RV WITH NO ISSUES MOTORHOME IS GOOD TO GO"

Check engine light did not come back on this morning when i drove it about 15 mil ... I am going to drive it some more this weekend within my neck of the woods ... I wonder due to new fuel filter ... I am at a lost but in the mean time there is nothing wrong / not getting a fault code.
Also since all the repairs and oil change, etc I can feel it is running very smooth, shifting with some more grace and engine sounds good. I can feel some slight improvements since purchased it. What a several coach bucks make :-)  :'( 
Former 2003 GV U295 (6230) (2015 - 2025)
Former 94 GV U225 (2013-2016)

Re: Lift Pump Fault (VMS 200 EL) ISL 400 Cummins

Reply #7 –
Quote from: propman –

Also since all the repairs and oil change, etc I can feel it is running very smooth, shifting with some more grace and engine sounds good. I can feel some slight improvements since purchased it. What a several coach bucks make :-)  :'( 

Al,  since you use Cummins Ft. Worth, if you don't have it consider joining Cummins Power Club for a 10% savings Home Page || Cummins Power Club - The Power To Keep You Moving
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Lift Pump Fault (VMS 200 EL) ISL 400 Cummins

Reply #8 –
Michelle Thank you! I did join the Power Club :-)
Former 2003 GV U295 (6230) (2015 - 2025)
Former 94 GV U225 (2013-2016)

Re: Lift Pump Fault (VMS 200 EL) ISL 400 Cummins

Reply #9 –
Maybe when Cummins washed the engine bay
something in the electrical circuitry got wet that shouldn't have.

Re: Lift Pump Fault (VMS 200 EL) ISL 400 Cummins

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Traveling Man –
Maybe when Cummins washed the engine bay
something in the electrical circuitry got wet that shouldn't have.

That is exactly what i thought. It is ironic that they had discussed washing the engine as they were explaining to me the steps they were going to take for this work, during the work order write up process. They said they do it all the time and it is not a extensive wash but just a quick spray down from the back ... when i inspected at the end, it was clear to me that they only watered it down the back 1/3 of the engine from the back ... so I am still suspicious that water may have done something to trigger it.

For my 94 U225's engine bay i had spend two days going through everything and cleaning everything with even tooth brush where it required. I had not had the time to do that with this one yet ... I am just going through the usual steps of initial ownership yet ...
Former 2003 GV U295 (6230) (2015 - 2025)
Former 94 GV U225 (2013-2016)

Re: Lift Pump Fault (VMS 200 EL) ISL 400 Cummins

Reply #11 –
73 / 11 "Fuel Priming Pump Control Circuit shorted high/low"
Former 2003 GV U295 (6230) (2015 - 2025)
Former 94 GV U225 (2013-2016)
 

Re: Lift Pump Fault (VMS 200 EL) ISL 400 Cummins

Reply #12 –
I religiously washed every engine that I have owned in my life.  Used to take them to a car wash with hot water and spray them with soap,  then rinse and turn the key to start. Never had one fail to start and they were squeaky clean.  That is until 2 years ago when I had to replace the knock sensors in my Silverado pickup due to rust from water getting into the lifter valley cover.
I liked low- tech better.