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Topic: Beware of broken zip ties. (Read 895 times) previous topic - next topic

Beware of broken zip ties.

About 2 weeks ago - 2 complete slide operations, three different parks - we found one broken zip tie on top of the dinette table.  Got out the flash light and sniffed around realizing that zip ties hold the slide control wires in place.  Didn't see anything out of the ordinary so life continued.  I did place a zip tie where it appeared it might hold wires away from the moving parts.  After this occurred the rear slide bladder did not deflate unless I reset the HWH control panel by the driver's seat and some funny stuff was happening with the slide control lights in the Bed room. 

Today we had a 7AM appt. at HWH for system inspection, as many have done.  In preparation yesterday afternoon, while I was getting ready to move the coach over to HWH our large slide did not retract.  I was going to pull into their lot yesterday so as to not be late for our appt. this AM.  Tried some basic trouble shooting and the slide did not retract or extend plus it had moved/creeped into the coach about 7 to 8".  I drove over to HWH, which is about one mile away from our campsite and told the "crew" what was going on.  They asked me to check Hyd. oil level and a couple of other things and report back.  The oil was good and nothing worked so I went back to HWH to plead my case and ask for help.

They sent over 6 guys this AM and manually pushed the slide in.  The coach was in their Bay 6 at 7AM this morning.

After 5 1/2 hours they had found the problems and repaired them.  About 10 wires were either partially severed,  or completely severed.  During that event some wires shorted and blew a fuse in the "control board" rendering the slide completely inoperable.

We are fortunate that this occurred here and not someplace else.

As many have said before, HWH does a great job.  :D  I shudder to think how another RV service/repair company would have handled these problems.

PS:  Tipton Bakery -http://tiffinystiptonbakery.com/  is a must visit place while visiting the area.  They have something called "Crescents" which are delicious morsels that are delightful to your taste buds.
Scott & Carol Seibert
2001 42' double slide U320 - Sold
Previous - 2002 36' U320

Re: Beware of broken zip ties.

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Carol & Scott –
After 5 1/2 hours they had found the problems and repaired them.  About 10 wires were either partially severed,  or completely severed.  During that event some wires shorted and blew a fuse in the "control board" rendering the slide completely inoperable.


Scott,

Can you expand more on why the wires got caught and severed?  Understanding this in more detail (is it a 2002-only issue? where did the wires get caught?  What should you inspect?) will no doubt help someone in the future.

Michelle
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Beware of broken zip ties.

Reply #2 –
Where ? I don't know where there are any wires around my slide.
Your bad luck was very well timed & located, wow !
Dave W. (AKA Toyman )
'03, 270, 36', Build 6095, Pulling whatever I hook it to.

"Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened."
Dr Seuss

Re: Beware of broken zip ties.

Reply #3 –
Not sure if these will make a difference but I'm partial to Thomas & Betts cable ties.  Airplane stuff.  Has a stainless "tooth" to grip the cable.  I use a tightening tool also if I can.

Amazon has them
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Beware of broken zip ties.

Reply #4 –
I do not know if this is just a 2002 issue but understand that there are these types of harnesses in all FTs, Country Coaches, Prevosts, and any other coach with HWH slide mechanisms.  It is my understanding that all slides have some sort of wiring harnesses that send signals from the sensors/switches to the control boards specifically regarding the slide position.  For example:  These signals tell the control board if the slide is out so the coach engine drive train transmission will not engage if the slide is out.  (We can move our coach with the slide out as the PO bypassed this feature.)  The control board is also tied into the air system as it will not allow the slide to operate if the air pressure in the tanks is below 90 PSI.  (I am not sure that this is the case but that is what I was told.)  If your slide has locking pins they are also controlled by these sensors and will not allow the slide pins to engage or disengage if the proper signals are not received on the control board.  So the control panel will allow activation of of Hydraulic pumps and electrical motors based on the signals received from these sensors/switches.  If the wires are damaged/compromised certain slide functions will not occur as the board is not activated to allow them to function.

In terms of visually inspecting these wiring harnesses and chases:  The header and slide side covers must be removed to inspect the wire harnesses and chases.  While looking at you slide from the inside there are two legs and a header between the legs that covers/trims out the edges of the slide and slide openings.  Our slide Header and Legs were one piece designed and to remove the Legs/Header assembly you first must remove the Screw Leg Covers, held in place with velcro.  Once these material covers are removed there are 5 screws that hold each leg in place.  There are also 5 screws that go through the Header vertically into the slide and are covered with a Screw Cover - these just POP off.  these screws also must be removed.  Note: all screws ar #2 Square Drive.

Once all of these screws are removed the Header/Leg assembly can be pulled away - very carefully - from the slide and moved away from the slide for inspection.  This is not a difficult process but is a pain in the ***.  All slides may not have this one piece design.  We broke a leg off one time and I redesigned this slide/trim cover into 3 piece design to make it easier for us to install/remove/reinstall.

When the slide trim/cover is removed and placed to the side you will then be able to see the variety of switches and sensors as well as the wire chases and harnesses. 

When we found the broken zip tie I did remove the Header/Legs cover to inspect the wire chases.  I guess I did not do a good job or the damage was done after my inspection as I did not detect any damaged wires.  Our mighty fine Tech "Lonnie" called one of their electrical engineers to come down to the floor to assist him in following wires to the control board and "searching" for "shorts" and damaged wires that did not carry the prescribed voltage.  IE;  one wire should have carried 12vdc but was only carrying 3.5vdc.  The damage to the wire was not observable other than the insulation appeared "pinched". 

In chatting with Lonnie, our mighty fine tech.,  the Root Cause was zip tie material failure - probably due to material age and stressing over years of use resulting in the zip tie breaking and allowing the harnesses to fall into an area where the wire chase was pinched between the slide wall and coach wall.  Certainly this is a subjective opinion based on his experience.  The result was slide failure.  I do not think that this failure can adequately be inspected by the layman as some of the wire chases move with the slide  and are attached to the coach wall in various magic places.  I would guess that if the slide was operated numerous times - opening and closing - one could surmise where exactly where the zip ties should be, how many should be there and what thickness they should be.  Obviously someday these will break too.

To completely understand this problem and eliminate it one would need to perform a Failure Mode Effects Analysis and require sufficient data to statistically determine cause and therefore produce a meaningful  corrective action.

I hope I have answered the questions asked.  I think this problem is in the lap of the gods and hopefully it will not happen to you and if it does, you are close to HWH and their excellent staff.  ;D

(As many know the 2002 "Train" type mechanism and is unique to that year, in that, when the slide is extended the hyd. cylinders are retracted and when the slide is retracted the cylinders are extended.  This is a different topic entirely, and have only mention it in passing.)
Scott & Carol Seibert
2001 42' double slide U320 - Sold
Previous - 2002 36' U320

Re: Beware of broken zip ties.

Reply #5 –
Lonnie is the main guy. The rest of the techs seem to be extra "arms and legs" for Lonnie.
When I was there he figured out my main controller was not right, took to their repair shop for controllers, they fixed it (for about $90!!!), Lonnie put it back in and I was on my way by 1pm James Kress and his wife were there the same day, similar issues, similar results
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: Beware of broken zip ties.

Reply #6 –
Are these wire harnesses also encased in wire loom? It seems that would provide an extra level of protection, if there is room to do it.

I always use it when I see wire that doesn't have it, regardless of whether the wires are near moving parts. I just feel better knowing that I have that extra level of protection.
Royce & Denise, MC #17410
'01 U320 4220 ISM450 Build #5895 SOLD
Toad: '10 Honda CR-V

Travel makes one modest. You see what a tiny place you occupy in the world. - Gustave Flaubert
 

Re: Beware of broken zip ties.

Reply #7 –

The zip ties hold the wire looms in place above the slide.  I do not know the exact location of every wire that was damaged/broken.
Scott & Carol Seibert
2001 42' double slide U320 - Sold
Previous - 2002 36' U320