HWH Leveling Problem

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HWH Leveling Problem

August 17, 2016, 11:15:38 pm

We are in a RV site that requires the rear of the coach to be raised quite a bit more than the front to achieve level.

I haven't timed it but frequently (maybe every 1/2 hour) air is released from first the left rear, and then the right rear as indicated by a loud hissing, like a valve is opening and closing. Then the auxiliary compressor comes on and re-leveling takes place.

I don't have the HWH manual and my online isn't reliable enough to download it here.

What I don't understand is why the air is being released periodically at the end of the coach requiring the most lift.

For the last six weeks all of the places we've stopped prior to this have been almost level so leveling hasn't been a problem, in fact this is the first time since we purchased this coach that it has been an issue.

Have we sprung a leak or has the leveling system gone haywire?

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #1 – August 17, 2016, 11:23:23 pm

Leaks at the end of the systems amount of travel in some components?

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #2 – August 17, 2016, 11:41:17 pm

When I started this thread 25 minutes ago I shut the system off and placed a bubble level on the kitchen counter top.

It is still perfectly level as I am posting this now.

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #3 – August 18, 2016, 12:13:07 am

After my x Foretravel mechanic went through our coach and fixed all the static side suspension system leaks it has not required releveling in four years

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #4 – August 18, 2016, 12:27:15 am

Mine gets a little crazy when it's right on the max level on the front or rear. I think it has to do with the level sensor. I run the coach up on blocks on the low end/ side seems to take care of it. It will sit level for weeks the compressor never runs.

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #5 – August 18, 2016, 07:03:00 am

Put it in sleep mode and it will stay where it is without the pump coming on.

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #6 – August 18, 2016, 07:18:14 am

Quote from: Traveling Man – August 17, 2016, 11:15:38 pm

We are in a RV site that requires the rear of the coach to be raised quite a bit more than the front to achieve level.

I haven't timed it but frequently (maybe every 1/2 hour) air is released from first the left rear, and then the right rear as indicated by a loud hissing, like a valve is opening and closing. Then the auxiliary compressor comes on and re-leveling takes place.

I don't have the HWH manual and my online isn't reliable enough to download it here.

What I don't understand is why the air is being released periodically at the end of the coach requiring the most lift.

Is this just the first day at the site, is it dirt or grass, and has it been raining recently?

The way your leveling system works is that it "wakes up" every 30 minutes and checks level. If all is OK, it goes back to sleep. If it is low anywhere, the system first exhausts the high points, then pumps up the low points if it can't achieve level just by exhausting. You can see which corners/sides the system thinks are low by watching the HWH panel to catch it as it wakes up. Amber lights mean low.

It sounds like either

1) Front is sinking slightly in that half hour, so back is being lowered in an attempt to relevel then front is being pumped up.

2) Front could be lowering due to soft ground if you're not on pavement (we have had this experience; it will clear itself up once the ground compresses enough) or due to a small leak

OR

1) Back is raising slightly in that half hour, so system exhausts air from back when it wakes up to relevel

2) Back would be raising due to a leak through of either a raise or a travel solenoid. Most likely a raise solenoid if your rear bags are above ride height when this happens.

Since you're holding level for at least 25 minutes, you don't have a catastrophic leak, but a better way to check the situation is to measure the airbag heights at all 4 corners periodically. Pick some repeatable measurement - between plates, top of plate to top of plate - whatever works for you. With the system off take measurements every 1/2 hour to every hour. Graph the results over time to see which is changing most rapidly. This will help you pinpoint a leak in the leveling system that's associated with a bag, fitting, line, or six-pack.

If the measurements indicate the possibility of a small leak in the front, first suspect would be the six-pack manifold o-rings which you can soap to check for a leak. If the back is raising, it could be the valve seats on the plungers in the six-pack valves. O-rings are cheap and there is good info here on the forum as to what to buy at the local hardware store. The full rebuild kits with plungers are occasionally made available from the Newell Gurus guy (if you didn't order any during the forum group buy) and you can buy a single solenoid valve for somewhere in the neighborhood of $150 (don't quote me as my info is a few years' old

)from HWH or FOT or MOT parts.

Michelle

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #7 – August 18, 2016, 08:27:11 am

Had or have the same problem with my '03, it's kind of schizophrenic, some times it does, sometimes it doesn't. One sure thing, it sure gets your attention when you, and neighbors are sitting outside enjoying a quiet toddy!

Took it to HWH, they did their bubble check, fixed some leaks, and replaced 1 solenoid. It made a marked improvement, but didn't fix it. Wish they would do the complete trouble shooting procedures as Michelle outlined, I wanted it FIXED!

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #8 – August 18, 2016, 08:51:24 am

When we get somewhere the coach gets leveled then I turn off the automatic HWH level control but leave it on manual. The aux pump gets turned off. In a week or so I will maybe make one small manual adjustment by letting some air (a second or two) out of usually the drivers side. Bladder stays sealed, no intermittent pump, no auto adjustments due to sun heating one side or the other. Works for us.

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #9 – August 18, 2016, 09:23:16 am

Michelle, et al............Thanks for the in depth leveling info.

Here's the good news........... with the HWH shut off for now for more than 10 hours the bubble level hasn't moved, and the panel shows level.

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #10 – August 18, 2016, 09:28:22 am

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – August 18, 2016, 08:51:24 am

When we get somewhere the coach gets leveled then I turn off the automatic HWH level control but leave it on manual.

Roger, do you mean you turn the system off and then just turn it back on so you can watch for amber lights?

Also, how do you put it in sleep mode?

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #11 – August 18, 2016, 01:50:26 pm

Key on, push the air button twice, it should auto level. When it is sone press the travel button and then the air button once. Key off.

This leaves the HWH system on allowing manual adjustments but the auto leveling off. On my 2001 coach I can just cut power to the pump and it will not run. 2002's and maybe later might be wired differently but mine have no relays thay get hot. There is a water trap solonoid valve that is warm but it is always on unless draining the water trap.

If I need air I can turn on the pump and it will run for 1-2 minutes. You only need 15 psi for the bladder and most small adjustments (in our case almost always left or right) are just a bit of air out. A couple degrees front to back is not a big deal. If you have an LP refrig you want to be pretty close to level but it doesn't have to be perfect. Our test is the bathroom sliding doors, one goes one way, the other the other way. If they both stay closed it is good enough.

My air system is not perfect and if I put in the time required to make it perfect it would not be perfect very soon after. It takes days to leak down. Looking for and fixing very minor air leaks is not fun. I like fun. Off to the beach!

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #12 – August 18, 2016, 01:56:10 pm

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – August 18, 2016, 01:50:26 pm

I like fun. Off to the beach!

Quote of the week! Thanks for bringing it all down to (what should be) reality.

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #13 – August 18, 2016, 07:07:00 pm

Still level. Life is good.......... and quiet.

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #14 – August 18, 2016, 08:03:26 pm

I manually level our coach and then shut off the hwh system and the coach stays level. I do not do the auto level as it does not get it as level as I want it to be.

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #15 – August 19, 2016, 07:33:03 am

The coach is still level as I'm typing, but last night about 11:00 we heard the pump come on briefly even though the system is shut off.

Can someone explain please?

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #16 – August 19, 2016, 07:36:24 am

Quote from: Traveling Man – August 19, 2016, 07:33:03 am

The coach is still level as I'm typing, but last night about 11:00 we heard the pump come on briefly even though the system is shut off.

Can someone explain please?

Likely just maintaining the tank pressure as temperatures dropped. Ours does that every now and then (anywhere from 12 hours to 1 week; it varies).

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #17 – August 19, 2016, 11:06:26 am

I think it is working perfectly. the HWH pump system has two purposes. one is to level the coach and the second is to keep you slide bladders inflated, weather your slides are in or extended. (IF they had a slow leak and did not have a way to be filled, eventually they would leak down and then water could get in the coach.

I assume that you actually had the level system off and the ignition system off. (Not the ignition off and the coach level with HWH on but in "sleep" mode. In "sleep" mode the HWH wakes up every 30 minutes, checks level and uses the compressor to adjust the airbags as needed). So even in "off" mode on the leveling, the HWH will wake up periodically, and make sure your slide bladders are inflated. At least that is how I understand it to work from my last visit to HWH, but someone smarter than me here on the forum can correct me if I am wrong.

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #18 – August 19, 2016, 01:12:07 pm

Almost what Tim said. I think if the HWH is off, it is off. There is still a pressure sensor that is always active in the system and when the HWH tank drops below about 75psi, the compressor will come on and fill the tank up to about 100psi. This is to make sure the bladder stays inflated. I have a small leak and my compressor runs for 3-4 minutes once every 20-30 hrs. I have not tried to track down that small a leak. I may in the future.

Rich

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #19 – August 19, 2016, 01:55:41 pm

Agree - the reason I said it the way I did is that on my system there is only one HWH control module. If you take it out, all HWH functions are disabled - so things like slide operation, signals to transmission, keeping bladder up, etc are controlled by same HWH controller. SO while HWH leveling system can be turned off, the one shared HWH controller is always active and can not be turned off. at least on the 2000 FT that I have, that is how it was explained to me

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #20 – August 19, 2016, 02:02:22 pm

Just set an appointment @ HWH for the end of Sept. to straighten out this system and replace bladder..... Hope they can find where the major leaks are (I'm tone deaf).
And I had to physically unbolt the power cable to the 12v air pump, was afraid it would burn it's self out by running continuously, even tho the air supply was shut off to the slide.

Should make for an interesting "Maiden Voyage".
And if I can want to swing by FOT ,MOT, Extreme & "Rudy's" for schooling

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #21 – August 19, 2016, 02:22:42 pm

FYI, yes they do a leak check. They will find and fix leaks associated with HWH components and find and identify for you other air system leaks (brakes, etc.) for you to have fixed

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #22 – August 19, 2016, 02:25:19 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – August 19, 2016, 02:22:42 pm

FYI, yes they do a leak check. They will find and fix leaks associated with HWH components and find and identify for you other air system leaks (brakes, etc.) for you to have fixed

Great!

THANKYOU!!!!

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #23 – August 19, 2016, 02:31:24 pm

I would stay in the area a day or two after your repair to make sure everything is to your satisfaction before you drive hundreds of miles away

Re: HWH Leveling Problem

Reply #24 – August 19, 2016, 03:04:40 pm

Quote from: saddlesore – August 19, 2016, 02:02:22 pm

And I had to physically unbolt the power cable to the 12v air pump, was afraid it would burn it's self out by running continuously, even tho the air supply was shut off to the slide.

Two easy locations to check yourself that can cause the aux compressor (pump) to run continuously even with the slide supply valve closed:

1) N/O solenoid at the bottom of one of the clear bowls. It's supposed to close when the aux compressor runs and open when the compressor shuts off in order to purge condensation in the bowl (this is the "pssssshhhhhewwwww" sound you typically hear when the aux compressor shuts off). If it doesn't seal when the compressor starts, the compressor will run continuously. Feel the bottom of the solenoid for air when the compressor is running - you'll feel it if its leaking.

2) Clear bowl itself - look for cracking around the nut at the bottom of the bowl or a sealing problem at the top. We have seen a pretty catastrophic crack in this bowl in a more recent year coach as well.

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