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Starting Problem

We have has an intermittent starting problem fo the past year.. When starting I tour the key to start and wait for the "wait to start" light go s out and I get nothing, no clue clicking sound no anything. I am able to eventually have been successful at getting it to start by trying to start several times.  Over the sat year I have replaced the ignistion switch, starter, starting selenoid, starting batteries and after a conversation with James Triana he suggested I replace the booster/auxiliary starter selenoid.  The booster selenoid appeared to do the trick. We have been traveling several days and the coach has started on the first try every time.  Unfortunately when the stopes for fuel today the best ld problem was back. It took several attempts to,get it to start.  Any ideas?

Thanks for answering help.

RollinO's - Bruce & Pat Olson
2007 40' Nimbus 340
2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee

Re: Starting Problem

Reply #1 –
What about the IGNITION SOLENOID?

When this happens, do other things that only work with the ignition on still work: Allison shift pad illuminate? Dash HVAC fan work?

If not, suspect the ignition solenoid.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Starting Problem

Reply #2 –
Quote from: RollinO –
When starting I turn the key to start and wait for the "wait to start" light go s out and I get nothing, no clue clicking sound no anything. I am able to eventually have been successful at getting it to start by trying to start several times. 

Yours is newer than mine, so this might not apply.

My understanding is that you turn the ignition switch to "on" and wait for the "Check Engine" light to go out. Then you turn the ignition switch from "on" to "start," and it should fire right up.

Hope this helps,

Trent
Trent and Jean Eyler
2000  U295  4003  WTFE  ISC  350
Build#5603 MC#17385

Re: Starting Problem

Reply #3 –
Look for the instrument dials to come on in the dash. If they don't, go directly to the ignition solenoid. That's your problem.
1994 U280, Build 4490
Deming, NM.

Re: Starting Problem

Reply #4 –
Sorry Bruce & Pat you are having this problem.  Always makes one uncertain about geting going.  Every start is a small terror.  For now don't turn off engine at fuel stops, border crossings, etc as it would be a much bigger problem if you are tying up a common facility, as they could immediately require you to be towed, which has its own issues.

Clean ground wire connections including engine end of cables, bypass / replace aux start solenoid located next to our boost solenoid on our much older coach.  Make sure all battery cables are good, clean and tight.

Nice thing about replacing parts is usually the cable ends are cleaned and tightened

Could more time have been spent on diagnosis before throwing parts.  Like simulating ignition key start at Allison neutral start relay, then simulating that connection on the aux start solenoid.  These small low-amperage circuits must function for engine to crank when ignition key is turned to start position. 

3 years ago, we posted a start sequence wiring diagram that shows how our coach is wired and indicates where we can bypass ignition, neutral start relay and aux solenoid. 
95 U320 starting issue
Yours being 10 years newer may not follow this sequence. 

No crank is usually easier to diagnose than cranking without catching/starting.  Only a few items have to work and you have already replaced most of them. Use your meter to measure if voltage is missing where there should be 12-volts.

No idea why someone would suggest that boost solenoid could be preventing normal start, as this solenoid only comes into play when turning on dash boost switch to connect house battery bank to start battery bank, something that is done only when start batteries are low.  Some do use boost for all starts, but a dead start key would indicate some failure in the start sequence circuit.  Maybe fiddling with cables near the boost solenoid temporarily fixed the real cause of the failure.

Keep sharing your problem as many have their own story about not starting and I am sure that you guys will resolve it.  We did and our coach again for several years now starts on first crank.

Re: Starting Problem

Reply #5 –
I know this maybe showing my ignorance, but is there a seperete aux ignistion selenoid and a seperete boost selenoid? It was my understanding they were one in the same. 
RollinO's - Bruce & Pat Olson
2007 40' Nimbus 340
2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee

Re: Starting Problem

Reply #6 –
Separate areas of the coach and separate functions.

The ignition solenoid is up front-- depending on model but on the right front panel was standard for a number of years.

The boost/combine solenoid is back by the battery banks.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Starting Problem

Reply #7 –
Bruce, actually there are 4 separate solenoids to know about.
1) ignition:  located bottom center of large front 12-volt breaker panel  controlled by ignition key

when key is not in off position 12-volts to many circuits that are only on when key is on.
2) boost:  ours is located on isolator panel  Controlled by dash boost switch

When switch is on, house batteries and start batteries 12-volt heavy-duty cables are connected together
3) aux start:  ours is located on isolator panel  Controlled by neutral-start relay located on side of large front 12-volt breaker panel  When relay is closed, ignition key start/crank position allows 12-volts to close aux start solenoid
4) starter solenoid:  located & attached to top of starter
 Controlled by above aux start solenoid When starter solenoid closes it allows start battery heavy-duty cable to flow 12-volts to starter motor, cranking engine.
Certainly there is room for naming confusion as the boost start solenoid is often used to help the engine starter work better by drawing power from both battery banks.  So some could be calling this solenoid an auxiliary start solenoid.  But for starting problem-diagnosis it important to clearly understand the sequence of operations to crank the engine.

Re: Starting Problem

Reply #8 –
my issue is that my battery connections seem to loosen over time. Then I have issues. I tighten all the terminal connections, spins well.

With new batteries, not likely the problem, but easy to check....
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: Starting Problem

Reply #9 –
Tim, sounds like your cable-end terminals are shot.  Improved choice to eliminate wearing out cable ends is to use spade ended cables (flat end with single bolt hole).  And then use "military" battery post terminals.  Spade cables bolt to military terminal and when lead terminal wears out, just change the battery post connector.  Separating cable from battery post connector will also give you better electrical connectivity.
Battery Cable Terminals - Top Mount Official Military Post Terminal NW...

Re: Starting Problem

Reply #10 –
now on the list. Love projects!

Thanks,
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)
 

Re: Starting Problem

Reply #11 –
We were having an occasional starting problem for a couple months on our '06 Phenix, even with three six month batteries. Alton at FOT figured out it was all caused by a bad negative cable from the start batteries over to the starter. He simply took a negative jumper cable and went from post to post. It would then start immediately.

Byron
 
Byron and Linda Betncourt
2006 Phenix 40'
Buda,TX