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House Batteries

On my 06 Phenix I have the original 6 house batteries still in operation.  They are 8d Prevailer gel batteries that say on them they were distributed by Exide.  Recently my silverleaf indicated that one or more of them were overheating while we were running on the generator tailgating for a football game.  I opened the compartment and put a fan running and it solved the immediate problem  However it now has me concerned about the life of these batteries.  They were mfg in 2005 according to the stickers on them.  Should I replace them now or wait until more issues?  According to a search for these batteries they sell for over $800 each.  11 years of use seems incredible.
Gerard Caswell
Eunice, LA
2006 Phenix
2011 GMC Sierra P/U 4x4

Re: House Batteries

Reply #1 –
Gerard,

Yes, that IS a long life.

Can you identify the one that overheated? One with swelled case?  If so, and you want to delay replacing all of them for just one bad one, just remove that one. If bad, it is not adding to your available amp hrs anyway and will harm the other batteries.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: House Batteries

Reply #2 –
A non-contact infrared thermometer would be handy for identifying the "hot" battery.

Non-Contact Infrared Thermometer With Laser Targeting
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: House Batteries

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
A non-contact infrared thermometer would be handy for identifying the "hot" battery.

Non-Contact Infrared Thermometer With Laser Targeting
Interesting observation.  I recently bought the FLIR One infrared droid phone module that others had discussed on the forum.  I used it this weekend on various parts of the RV, including the 3 5 year old 8D Lifeline house batteries.  One of the batteries showed up as being significantly warmer than the others.  Not warm to the touch but the entire battery was obviously glowing warmer on the screen as compared to the others.  It was not the battery that the charger or load cables were connected to, which is what I would have expected.  The coach was connected to shore power and the batteries were at 100% (not actively charging).  I tested all 3 batteries a few months ago with a carbon pile load tester and all 3 were good.  Not sure what, if anything, that means but I will be watching that battery more closely now.

Re: House Batteries

Reply #4 –
ALL the batteries need replacing as a matched set.  Deka/mk/east penn gels are at least as long lasting as the exides and may have been made by them?

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: House Batteries

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Caflashbob –
ALL the batteries need replacing as a matched set.

What he said.  ^.^d
1993 U-240 "La Villa Grande"..CAT 3116 w/ Pacbrake PRXB...Allison 3060 6-speed..
Previous: 1983 Airstream 310 turbo diesel, 1979 Airstream 280 turbo diesel
                                      Build # 4297
                                      PNW natives
                      Home base:  'Cactus Hug' (Ajo, Arizona)
                        DW Judy & Chet the wonder dog
                        Full-Timers 'Sailing the asphalt sea'

Re: House Batteries

Reply #6 –
Sorry, I do not agree with the notion that you must replace all batteries at the same time to get good results.
The nature of batteries is that one cell of one battery can fail prematurely and replacing just that failed battery can provide good results.
However, with deep cycle batteries more then ten years old, even Gel batteries, it is imperative to test their capacity to determine how much useful life is remaining. Deep cycle testing is easy to do but takes hours to complete. I had a 13 year old Gel that testing revealed was still out performing two 5 year old AGM batteries. I replaced all three batteries after testing.
Wyatt
96 U320 40 WTFE, build 4943
84 Toyota Supra towd
2015 Jeep Wrangler towd
Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: House Batteries

Reply #7 –
While I agree it is best to replace all batteries in a bank together, I have zero problem in your removing one from the bank.

This assumes that you will still have enough battery capacity for your projected dry camping needs.  But, a dead battery is providing no power anyway, so removing it will not reduce battery bank capacity.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: House Batteries

Reply #9 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
While I agree it is best to replace all batteries in a bank together, I have zero problem in your removing one from the bank.

This assumes that you will still have enough battery capacity for your projected dry camping needs.  But, a dead battery is providing no power anyway, so removing it will not reduce battery bank capacity.
I agree with Brett (which is almost always good policy!). Gerard has 6 house batteries. If one is drawing down the others just yank it out. The batteries are 11 years old and still working. To me that says he's not doing a whole lot of boondocking. If he is going pole to pole to generator you don't need a ½ ton of batteries. My $.02!

Gerard my advise DWMYH!

see ya
ken
The selected media item is not currently available.ken & dori hathaway & Big Agnes
🍺1992 U300 GrandVilla WTBI #4150 FOT FBP 2011
✨6V-92TA DDEC Parlor Coach 350HP Series 92
🏁2011 Nissan XTerra Pro-4X

Re: House Batteries

Reply #10 –
Unless the cabling was specifically setup to equalize every paths length exactly and every cable end had the exact current carrying ability and every terminal or flag the exact connection quality and/or the batteries were rotated annually to swap out the end of string units the existing batteries should test fairly differently for condition.

my guru buddy regularly shows me the difference in similar aged gels he has switched out between the batteries location on the circuit.

Have yours tested IMO.  Twenty years in the fancy Rv biz management. 

I replaced every battery in every used Rv I ever sold.  No calls. No issues. Happy repeat customers.

You got the "good" out of then IMO.

If I bought your coach as is the batteries would be replaced on the way home.

Then I have a known good start to trouble shoot any other possible issues..

As an example our u320 had medium good flooded cell batteries when purchased. 

Used it for a year thinking all was ok.

Finally installed new gels like it was equipped with new and carefully monitored the amount of charging the batteries required based on the amp hours used.

Turns out the heart freedom 25 battery charger circuits are worn,  imagine that,.,supposed to be charging at 130 amps/hour

Had the alternator rebuild and verified its 130 output. 

Extended use comparing the recharge time from straight alternator with the solar turned off versus the charger showed almost 50% slower recharge from the charger versus the alternator.

Separately I measured the recharge time from the gen versus the amp hours drawn and the voltages shown after use just to cross check the other info.

Asking my inverter guru Eric commented that the contacters inside the charging circuit have corroded and their smaller contact area will not carry the full amperage from the charging circuit.  Normal older inverter/charger issue according to him.

Worn batteries would make that kind of trouble shooting very hard as the charger would be on a lot more trying to charge up maybe through poor batteries or cabling.

You may have no other issues after 11 years but no way to see without known good batteries IMO

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: House Batteries

Reply #11 –
Been boondocking for 40 years, 25 with solar. Have never worried about cable length, busbars, etc. Have always used heavy cable when possible, and never ran batteries below 75% on trimetric, [or its equivalent before it was made]. Had one battery go bad with two bad cells. Like to have at least 750 ah in batteries. Generally traded coaches before worrying about batteries. Last long time coach, batteries still good after 7 years.
Probably showing my age, but my english mother used to say: "Don't strain at the nats, and swallow a camel."
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: House Batteries

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Caflashbob –
Unless the cabling was specifically setup to equalize every paths length exactly and every cable end had the exact current carrying ability and every terminal or flag the exact connection quality and/or the batteries were rotated annually to swap out the end of string units the existing batteries should test fairly differently for condition.

my guru buddy regularly shows me the difference in similar aged gels he has switched out between the batteries location on the circuit.

Have yours tested IMO.  Twenty years in the fancy Rv biz management. 

I replaced every battery in every used Rv I ever sold.  No calls. No issues. Happy repeat customers.

You got the "good" out of then IMO.

If I bought your coach as is the batteries would be replaced on the way home.

Then I have a known good start to trouble shoot any other possible issues..

As an example our u320 had medium good flooded cell batteries when purchased. 

Used it for a year thinking all was ok.

Finally installed new gels like it was equipped with new and carefully monitored the amount of charging the batteries required based on the amp hours used.

Turns out the heart freedom 25 battery charger circuits are worn,  imagine that,.,supposed to be charging at 130 amps/hour

Had the alternator rebuild and verified its 130 output. 

Extended use comparing the recharge time from straight alternator with the solar turned off versus the charger showed almost 50% slower recharge from the charger versus the alternator.

Separately I measured the recharge time from the gen versus the amp hours drawn and the voltages shown after use just to cross check the other info.

Asking my inverter guru Eric commented that the contacters inside the charging circuit have corroded and their smaller contact area will not carry the full amperage from the charging circuit.  Normal older inverter/charger issue according to him.

Worn batteries would make that kind of trouble shooting very hard as the charger would be on a lot more trying to charge up maybe through poor batteries or cabling.

You may have no other issues after 11 years but no way to see without known good batteries IMO


OK is there an electrical engineer on board here.  There is no perfect equalization technique here, but do really care? So why loose sleep over a 3% difference in current carrying capacity between batteries. Arrange your cables first in, last out, in multi bank battery banks. Cable sizes that increase in size as they connect additional batteries IMO would help equalize. Big bus bars arranged first in, last out may be the ultimate $$ fix. I personally would prefer a set of thick plate golf cart batteries or industrial batteries or lithium ion when the prices come down. I have a charger that can desulficate batteries with a greater than 66% success rate.
Old Phart Phred, EIEIO
89 GV ored 36' #3405 300 hp cat 3208 ATAAC side radiator, mountain tamer exhaust brake

Re: House Batteries

Reply #13 –
Way more than 3%.  My guru buddy tested four 8g8d's he installed in a friends bus nine years previously and had replaced with new gels with normal non equalized cabling and no rotation the two end batteries tested bad on two different testers and the middle two tested good and  I used them for a year before I bought three new gels.

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4
 

Re: House Batteries

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Old phart phred –
OK is there an electrical engineer on board here.  There is no perfect equalization technique here, but do really care?

Really don't need to be an engineer to have common sense. The difference in cable length is negligible under all but super high current draws. Toss in the fact that all connections will vary in resistance, thus causing a different voltage drop. So the wild goose chase of "equal cable length" is a wonderful internet topic to go round and round on.

And since the loading of the house batteries at high amperage is usually short duration...during normal lower amperage loading (30-50 amps) the negligible cable length difference will allow the batteries to reach equilibrium with one another.

Lastly, during float charging (which tops off each battery in the bank), the current flow is so low relative to the rated current of the wiring, that each battery will get fully charged to the same voltage.
1998 U270 34'