Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Solar system upgrade overview (Read 976 times) previous topic - next topic

Solar system upgrade overview

By George Denninghoff © 2017 this only appears to protect what follows for future publishing.  Should not affect anyone on the forum in anyway.

When I started this project, I was still making Sheppard hooks to tie wire to source.  I knew nothing much beyond that and finally got frustrated with not being able to do the most basic electrical tasks.  I ordered Dan Sullivans book read and reread and then ordered a system for DIY install.  It was a bit much and I then took weeks reading and rereading what these components did and how they interacted together.  The following is a description of the updating of the electrical system on our 97 270 to accommodate solar power.  We decided that to take full advantage of the solar credit we would take a systems approach consisting of PV panels, Inverter, lithium, electrical panel, isolating controls and starting battery charging. 

Goals
   Learn electrical systems with assistance of a good friend
        Create a hybrid system to take full advantage of PV installation
   Update the 20 year old inverter technology and panel
   Install battery storage that fully utilized the advantages of solar
   Create solar charging for our starting batteries

To meet these goals we purchased our materials from AM Solar. Solar Panel Kits for RV - Solar Panels RV - DIY RV Solar.  By purchasing the system from them I was able to get excellent support while providing them with an initial DIY install as a Beta for future installs.  We were in uncharted territory and with mutual patience and interest all issues were worked through as colleagues.  At the start, I wanted to create a system using one company's equipment to avoid conflicts with integration.  Victron is a worldwide provider of energy products with a solid reputation.

Cost

This update was a significant cost.  The final equipment costs were over  $10,000.  One purely personal word here.  From where I sit there is nothing economical about MH life.  Lithium will come down in price but I am 68 and I am not willing to wait for that to happen.  The question for us is not the cost of the upgrade but rather is it one we can afford to make and will we benefit from the work and the personal experience.  This is my 57 Chevy I am not looking at resale etc. The lithium portion of the update was over $5,000.  Here is a list of what we installed:

5 160watt solar panel kit for a total of 800watts
1 100 watt solar panel
1 Victron MPPT 100/50
1 6amp Morningstar controller for starting batteries (not connected to system)
1 Victron Multipass 3000 inverter kit
1  AM Solar lithium kit with BM200, Orion DC converter and two Victron 200Ah lithium batteries.  (see their essential system)
1 BMV 702
1 CCGX color monitor
3 Perko switches
Lots of cable and wiring etc

The following are not part of the solar system and in my opinion not deductible but were done as part of the upgrade.

Progressive 50A surge protector hardwired between ATS and box
Blue Sea Solenoid in the dash
Addition of 12 volt receptacle and wiring in fridge area for use at table and possible upgrade to residential fridge.
Blue Sea switch in place of ATS.  Not yet installed.

I am going to break this up into five installments.

Solar Solar system upgrade: Solar install
Inverter Solar system upgrade: Inverter install
Lithium Solar system upgrade: Lithium install
Panel Solar system upgrade: Panel
Back of the bus Solar install: back of the bus/conclusion

I will post each over the next few days.

George and Steph
1997 U270 36 Build 5081 "Honu"
1180w Solar 400A lithium all Victron house system
Motorcade 17670, SKP 128300, FMCA F459019
73 VW Camper, 79 VW Camper, 2363 Sunline, and an Arctic Fox 25P

Re: Solar system upgrade overview

Reply #1 –
Thank you George. This will be interesting.
Richard & Betty Bark & Keiko our Golden Doodle
2003 U320T 3820 PBDS
Build # 6215
MC # 16926
2016 Chevrolet Colorado 4X4 diesel

Re: Solar system upgrade overview

Reply #2 –
Quote from: George and Steph –
The following are not part of the solar system and in my opinion not deductible but were done as part of the upgrade.
George,

I appreciate your honesty. I am not an expert in income tax law.

I have a more flexible philosophy. If you do not claim a deduction, you will not get it.

None of the equipment you installed is a standalone system. The PV solar system you installed is made up of many components. In addition to the equipment you installed and are claiming in your tax return, other equipment is also essential to it working and performing its intended purpose. I do not think it is unreasonable to consider surge protectors, solenoids, receptacles, and switches as part of your PV solar system.

But maybe that's just me.

Good luck,

Trent



Trent and Jean Eyler
2000  U295  4003  WTFE  ISC  350
Build#5603 MC#17385

Re: Solar system upgrade overview

Reply #3 –
Thank you, George. This will be fun to see. I wish we could get a few dozen interested teenagers in your work area to take in your project. What fun. All the best! P
Paul & Kathleen
1995 U320c SE 40'
Build 4681 --Cummins M11 /17511
"That Irish Girl"
Red MINI " 40"

Re: Solar system upgrade overview

Reply #4 –
Wow, nice system. I will be installing a DIY system like this in the spring and am accumulating the parts now. It is a daunting project. What does you system diagram look like?
1997 U270 34FT Build 5140 Cummins 8.3 Allison 3060R
Solar 1920Watts, 14KWH lithium. Orion BMS.

Re: Solar system upgrade overview

Reply #5 –
Here is a high-level system diagram of my proposed solar system.
1997 U270 34FT Build 5140 Cummins 8.3 Allison 3060R
Solar 1920Watts, 14KWH lithium. Orion BMS.

Re: Solar system upgrade overview

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Tim –
Here is a high-level system diagram of my proposed solar system.
Are you going to bypass the inverter for the A/C's?
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Solar system upgrade overview

Reply #7 –
Here are some items for you to ponder if you have not already bought the equipment.

1.  With a combined inverter/charger/mppt Controller, if one circuit malfunctions, you must send the entire system for repair, rendering you with nothing until repairs are made. Also you are depending on the correct functioning of the interfaces between the inverter, the charger, the MPPT Controller, and the battery bank, which is something I would not be comfortable with. I have separate devices, a pure sign wave 1800 watt inverter, an IOTA dual voltage converter (not a charger), and an Outback 80 amp solar controller. I also carry a spare of each so failures are not difficult to deal with.
2. With a well designed/sized solar system, you will seldom need a battery charger. I do not have a battery charger in my system, but do have a dual voltage (13.6v or 14.0v) converter which I seldom use.
3. The inverter you include is quite large and could draw as much as 500 amps when fully loaded. I use a 2KW pure sign wave inverter with 3% total harmonic distortion, which will draw 200amps at full load. I manage the power consumption so as to not overload the inverter. The cost of a 5KW inverter is far higher than the cost of a 2KW inverter and the wires/connectors for a 500 amp supply are much larger than for a 200 amp supply.
4. I have six 245 watt panels with mpp voltage of 31 volts with panels paired to bring 62 volts off the roof (less line loss then 31 volts). I would add this to your diagram.   
Wyatt
96 U320 40 WTFE, build 4943
84 Toyota Supra towd
2015 Jeep Wrangler towd
Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Solar system upgrade overview

Reply #8 –
Wyatt,

Agree about the inverter. We just use the OEM inverter and have never had a problem. Envious of your sine wave inverter as our microwave takes forever.

Before I purchased the Midnite 150, I asked about reliability. Out of hundreds sold by NASW, only one had to be serviced. The factory said they overnight for any repairs. I just purchased one as $615 is a lot for a backup. I have not started the generator in years but could for a few days if our controller had a problem.

With all LED lighting, LED TVs, and even using the microwave and latte maker each morning, we have never come close to depleting the batteries. If overcast, it still charges, just slower. Our inverter gets shut down late at night.

With our solar panels mounted flat, the efficiency is much less but it's still overkill.

With the price of PV panels today, less than $2K for a DIYer gets about 1200 watts on the roof and the best quality components  except for the batteries of your choice.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Solar system upgrade overview

Reply #9 –
Agree with Wyatt, all your eggs are in one basket. Most high line all electric bus conversions use several smaller inverters. Assuming you want to run both air cons off your batteries, you would be better off with two 2500 or 2800 watt inverter/chargers. Even with a bigger battery bank, you will need the charger portion if you run your ac's off battery alone. Another advantage is smaller wiring with the two inverters. One air con per inverter and split your house 120 volt loads between the two inverters. I would wire a bypass around the inverters straight from s.p. or gen just in case the transfer switch on the inverter gives you a problem.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Solar system upgrade overview

Reply #10 –
A couple of answers. Didn't want to hijack this post.
1. Yes, I wanted all my eggs in the same basket, for a more integrated, simplified, lower cost system. It's a risk I'll just have to take.
2. The unit has a transfer switch built-in so when AC power is applied, the inverter shuts off.
3. Purchased the 5KW unit for the price of the 3KW pure sine unit.
4. I do not plan on running the AC from the batteries, for now. Microwave should run OK though. When the 1200w microwave runs, it will only take about 30Amps from the 48Volt LIFEPO4 batteries.
5. I will always have 12V engine battery and propane to run the refer and heater. I'll just have to carry some jumper cables.
1997 U270 34FT Build 5140 Cummins 8.3 Allison 3060R
Solar 1920Watts, 14KWH lithium. Orion BMS.

Re: Solar system upgrade overview

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Tim –
A couple of answers. Didn't want to hijack this post.
1. Yes, I wanted all my eggs in the same basket, for a more integrated, simplified, lower cost system. It's a risk I'll just have to take.
2. The unit has a transfer switch built-in so when AC power is applied, the inverter shuts off.
3. Purchased the 5KW unit for the price of the 3KW pure sine unit.
4. I do not plan on running the AC from the batteries, for now. Microwave should run OK though. When the 1200w microwave runs, it will only take about 30Amps from the 48Volt LIFEPO4 batteries.
5. I will always have 12V engine battery and propane to run the refer and heater. I'll just have to carry some jumper cables.
If you have a propane fridge, what in the world would you need a 5000 watt inverter for? You can never have enough solar or battery capacity, but 5000 watts seems like overkill for a 1200 watt microwave.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Solar system upgrade overview

Reply #12 –
Quote from: jcus –
If you have a propane fridge, what in the world would you need a 5000 watt inverter for? You can never have enough solar or battery capacity, but 5000 watts seems like overkill for a 1200 watt microwave.
I upgraded from the OEM 1500 watt inverter to 4000 watt inverter - run cooler, last longer, higher charge rate, higher surge ability, capacity for future upgrades.
Peter and Tammy Fleming
1991 U300 GV 40 - Sold, owned for 4 years
Downsized to Roadtrek Popular 210 class B

Re: Solar system upgrade overview

Reply #13 –
Quote from: jcus –
If you have a propane fridge, what in the world would you need a 5000 watt inverter for? You can never have enough solar or battery capacity, but 5000 watts seems like overkill for a 1200 watt microwave.
With the advancements in lighting, TVs, etc. RVs need much less electricity than they did just a few years ago. Perhaps less than half as much. Now, if you could get enough panels on the roof to run an AC 24/7, that's another matter.

Propane for the fridge is a good compromise. It's cheap, you can store lots onboard, cook, heat water and run heaters too.

I would like to have a timer for the inverter as I don't run it all night but too lazy to install one.

5 years, zero problems.

P
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Solar system upgrade overview

Reply #14 –
George,

What size 12V cables are those? They look long, small and lossy. How far is the run from the controller to the coach batteries?

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Solar system upgrade overview

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart –
With the advancements in lighting, TVs, etc. RVs need much less electricity than they did just a few years ago. Perhaps less than half as much. Now, if you could get enough panels on the roof to run an AC 24/7, that's another matter.

Propane for the fridge is a good compromise. It's cheap, you can store lots onboard, cook, heat water and run heaters too.

I would like to have a timer for the inverter as I don't run it all night but too lazy to install one.

5 years, zero problems.

P

Build yourself an invertor driven compressor, high EER A/C unit that only uses 900 watts per 12,000 btuh and start on 8.6 amps inrush120 vac.  instead the cheap junk RV offerings that use 1500+ watts and many coach  and CG electrical Issues Would go away. That is the future.
Old Phart Phred, EIEIO
89 GV ored 36' #3405 300 hp cat 3208 ATAAC side radiator, mountain tamer exhaust brake

Re: Solar system upgrade overview

Reply #16 –
Pierce
The run from the controller to the batteries is about 2 feet.  The cable size is 4.  The panels are run to the combiner box with 10/2 marine tinned wire.  Combiner to controller 7 ft of 4.

Not sure about "lossy".  If you mean tight, they are and I am still bundling.  If you mean lousy, I don't think so but that is possible.  I did not go with their wire up top as I wanted marine tinned for the weather exposure.

All the wire for the work around for gen set is marine 2/0 from West Marine.  The others are mostly OEM or same gage as on the OEM schematic and from West.
George and Steph
1997 U270 36 Build 5081 "Honu"
1180w Solar 400A lithium all Victron house system
Motorcade 17670, SKP 128300, FMCA F459019
73 VW Camper, 79 VW Camper, 2363 Sunline, and an Arctic Fox 25P
 

Re: Solar system upgrade overview

Reply #17 –
Agreed, 5KW is overkill. However, you never know if you'll want to run two ACs and the microwave together, a refer, run the heat strip, hair dryer, run a circular saw, or charge an electric car with the solar system.
1997 U270 34FT Build 5140 Cummins 8.3 Allison 3060R
Solar 1920Watts, 14KWH lithium. Orion BMS.