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Advice on purchasing older model

When I first started my search for a Class A a few years ago, I was advised to limit my search to gas rigs as diesel  units were more expensive to run/own. I wanted a pusher, but learned pretty quick that the supply in gas units was very limited. Because I'm retired on a fixed, modest income, I confined myself to older units. I appreciate good quality and equipment that has been well maintained: which also severely reduced the supply. It took me two years, trips to see misrepresented units, and stuff under 33' just didn't have bathrooms big enough to accommodate my old joints. I ended up with a really nice 34' HR with a 50,000 mile 454 long block on a 84,000 mile chassis. It's well sorted and everything works fine: the issue is I know of a 1986, 36', gas, 460 Ford, Foretravel pusher with 37,000 miles, and a 1989, 40', Detroit diesel, with 84,000 miles. Both appear to be well maintained and in a price range I can handle. My questions: I've been told recently that FT gas pushers are under powered and I wouldn't  be happy with performance; particularly if towing. The 36' also has a rubber roof. Looks to be in good shape, but the unit is a 1986, and I was told rubber is not the best roof material. Only issue I'm aware of on the 40' unit is that I've been cautioned by a local diesel shop that this make isn't as good as a Cummins, and Detroits have been know for problems... ? I am hopeful those of you out there that have experience with these units can help this pilgrim avoid making a costly mistake that would end up making me wish I had kept my HR. I anxiously await all the sage wisdom that will shortly be coming my way. Thanks you all for making me some time.

Re: Advice on purchasing older model

Reply #1 –
There are a lot of Detroit fans on this forum and I'm sure you will hear from them. 

Good luck with your decision.
Rick & Rhonda
2003 U320 4220  Build #6199
Was
91 36' GV 300 Caterpillar, 92 40' U280 300 Cummins, 97 36' U295 300 Cummins, 2002
U320 450 Cummins
(Guess we're hooked)

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Re: Advice on purchasing older model

Reply #2 –
Contact James Holder, service Manager at Tennessee RV. He has a 1984 GV 40' with the 8.2L Detroit Diesel and really enjoys his coach.
I/we have a 1989 GV 36' with the same engine with around 80,000 miles on it.
Problem today is the engines are dependable if cared for but the problem is there are less and less mechanics to work on mechanical engines--and this includes the mechanical Cats and Cummins. We now have "techs" that want to hook up a computer to tell them what is wrong.
Nitehawk,  Demolition Lady, & our NEW master, Zippy the speeding BB cat.
1989 Grand Villa 36' ORED
Oshkosh chassis, 8.2 DD V8
2006 Saturn Vue AWD

Re: Advice on purchasing older model

Reply #3 –
We have a 92 U300 Grand Villa with a 6/92Detroit and have had very good luck with it, with anything you buy you have to do your homework, we have been blessed with a good on so far I do all my own maintenance and with the help from the people on this forum have been able to manage any problem we have had. Take your time, there are some good ones out there and some ruff ones. Know what you can handle before you buy.
Good luck and ask away.
Andy & Eileen
MONTROSE COLORADO
1992 U300  40' 6V92 TA
2016 4 Runner
1998 Jeep Grand cherokee

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee) Build # 4135 Skp# 122921

Re: Advice on purchasing older model

Reply #4 –
A couple of thoughts on this.  Your 34' Holiday Rambler is a good size and you say it is nicely sorted.  That's a good place to be, once you feel secure all the bugs are worked out.  A new used coach means starting the debugging process again. 

These older coaches are great values for either:
The talented DIY type who can handle their own repairs and maintenance.  This person will have good troubleshooting skills and enjoy working on their beast.
Or
The person who wants a quality coach without the depreciation of buying a newer, lesser brand.  These folks are not fazed by  normal repair/maintenance costs with work done by others.  They know in the long run they will be way ahead vs. buying new plus they have the pleasure of owning  a very high quality coach with great resale value. Naturally, most of this crowd has sufficient disposable income to not be inordinately worried about the costs. 

So, either talent or money is required.  Only you can say but I can assure you that lacking both will lead to some misery.
"Not so  long ago we were a nation of risk takers, riding five million pounds of  thrust straight into space."  Joe Gresh
Chuck Pearson
1996 U295
2018 Can Am X3 TurboRS

Re: Advice on purchasing older model

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Chuck Pearson –
A couple of thoughts on this.  Your 34' Holiday Rambler is a good size and you say it is nicely sorted.  That's a good place to be, once you feel secure all the bugs are worked out.  A new used coach means starting the debugging process again. 

These older coaches are great values for either:
The talented DIY type who can handle their own repairs and maintenance.  This person will have good troubleshooting skills and enjoy working on their beast.
Or
The person who wants a quality coach without the depreciation of buying a newer, lesser brand.  These folks are not fazed by  normal repair/maintenance costs with work done by others.  They know in the long run they will be way ahead vs. buying new plus they have the pleasure of owning  a very high quality coach with great resale value. Naturally, most of this crowd has sufficient disposable income to not be inordinately worried about the costs. 

So, either talent or money is required.  Only you can say but I can assure you that lacking both will lead to some misery.
Amen Brother!!  BTW I am in between the two choices stated above.......I am on this forum every day trying to suck up as much knowledge as I can before the warranty runs out!....good luck sir!
dave
Dave
2002 295 36'
Build 6006
Motorcade Member 17931
Toad 2003 Jeep Wrangler
2008 BMW R1200 GSA

Re: Advice on purchasing older model

Reply #6 –
Bruce,

  A few thoughts on your post.

(A)  If you see a gas model of Foretravel run, don't walk away from it.
      I learned that the hard way, before I found the forum with the excellent
      advice here. There was never enough engine for the size of the coach
      and the 460 Ford was terrible about overheating. You mention towing
      a Foretravel gas needs towing, not being a tow vehicle.

(B)    I feel a pusher is the only way to go, after 3 motorhomes with front engines.

(C)    I would not consider a coach under 36' if you are looking for a class A.

(D)    I have owned Detroit, Cat and Cummins engines in trucks over the years.
        Each has positive and negative points.  We always thought the Detroit was
        an engine we could put any driver on, they were tough, unless you let them get
        too hot, but this is a fatal problem with all diesel engines. On any engine watch
        your gages and if the engine starts to heat use a lower gear and keep the RPMs
        up. If it still is heating pull over and check to see if you have a problem. A diesel
        engine needs to idle before being shut down, They cool themselves when idling
        because a diesel pulls in the same amount of air for every revolution as opposed
        to a gas engine which the air flow is restricted by the carb. Not sure if this true for
        the newer gas engines. Another thing is to keep the RPMs within the proper operating
        range, never lugging the engine nor over revving it, both can do harm.

(E)    Diesel engines take more care than a gas but mile for mile are not that much more expensive.
        It is just that when you do have to change fluids and filters it costs more, buy they run
        far more miles between changes. If you go diesel set aside some money each month in
        piggy bank for the maintenance. See if you can find an old diesel mechanic that still does
        part time work, this can save big bucks over a company shop. I carry a set of filters and
        belts with me. Learn to change your fuel filters. You can pickup water or trash on the road
        changing them yourself is cheaper than a service call.

(F)    Get a good service policy, if you intend to be on the road much of the time. You mention old
        joints, mine are 67 years old and breaking down in traffic scares me terribly. Wreckers charge
        many dollars. I had engine problems the awhile back and they asked me 600.00 per hour and
        a two hour minimum. This was a  wrecker out of Tyler, Texas. After that I got towing insurance.

(G)    A mechanical engine and chasis is better than an electronic for an older cheapskate like me.
          If you are looking for an older coach think about a mecchanical.

(H)    As far as the roof goes, that is a toss up? I've seen newer coaches with roof problems and
          older ones with no problems.

(I)        Read on the forum search about anything you might want to do is covered here.

(J)        Get some help looking and evaluating any coach you intend to buy. Members here can help
            but even if you have to hire someone get some expert help.

Best of luck in your search,

Carter Langford
Nacogdoches, Texas

Re: Advice on purchasing older model

Reply #7 –
You're doing your homework and that is great.  Look for  a rig with a CAT 3208T engine in it.  That engine is used everywhere and is solid as a rock.  Easy to work on, lots of mechanics around that know the engine, reasonable to find parts for them and they pull very well.  We have a 91 GV with that engine in it and have been very pleased with it.    Have a great day  ----  Fritz
Fritz & Kathy Johnson
1991 36'

Re: Advice on purchasing older model

Reply #8 –
When you look at the Detroit Diesel coach pay special attention to whether it's a V8 or a V6. The V8 will be an 8.2 liter four cycle "Fuel Pincher" which is drastically different from the V6 engine, which will be a 6V92TA two cycle engine. I suspect Foretravel made coaches with both types of Detroits during the 1980s based on the coaches I saw when I was shopping around a few years ago. Also pay attention to whether the coach has a side radiator, which will have hydraulic fan motors, pump, and drive belt, or if it has a rear radiator which will just have belts without hydraulics. Before you purchase a side radiator coach search this forum for keyword "hydraulic" and read a bunch of the stories on here. If you buy a rear radiator coach read my story about the fiberglass radiator fan and immediately replace the fiberglass fan with a nylon fan... You'll be fine AFTER you install the nylon fan but definitely don't drive it with the fiberglass fan.
Scott Cook
1991 U300 36' 6V92TA
Old Town Penobscot 16
1984 Honda VF1100C (V65 Magna)

Re: Advice on purchasing older model

Reply #9 –
Since everybody is giving their opinion.....coming from a guy that's worked on all the mentioned engines, get a cummins. Easier to get parts, more people to work on, much more of them in service.
1998 U270 34'

Re: Advice on purchasing older model

Reply #10 –
He's on a tight budget and every coach buyer wants a Cummins. He's found a coach with a Detroit in his price range and the other coaches are gassers. This is an easy choice if the Detroit is in good condition, even if it's a Fuel Pincher.
Scott Cook
1991 U300 36' 6V92TA
Old Town Penobscot 16
1984 Honda VF1100C (V65 Magna)

Re: Advice on purchasing older model

Reply #11 –
Depending on the size and weight, I wouldn't discount a gas engine. If not putting a lot of miles on it each year, the gas isn't a bad gig. Also, parts are dirt cheap for a gasser (and you can install a whole new engine for the cost of some "minor" repairs on diesels!
1998 U270 34'
 

Re: Advice on purchasing older model

Reply #12 –
And I even posted all the information on where to get the nylon fan for the 8.2L DD about a week ago, so the research as been done.
Nitehawk,  Demolition Lady, & our NEW master, Zippy the speeding BB cat.
1989 Grand Villa 36' ORED
Oshkosh chassis, 8.2 DD V8
2006 Saturn Vue AWD