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Topic: Solar Installation - 1st hand education (Read 786 times) previous topic - next topic

Solar Installation - 1st hand education

Starting Sunday afternoon Feb 12th I'll be in Mayo, FL with John Palmer of PalmerEnergySystems doing a complete solar install and system overhaul.  Spoke with several people recommended by Jack Mayer (RV Electrical) and John was both the closest geographically and my favorite.

John is an old-timer type, and won't work on your coach unless you are there working with him.  I want to learn about the system almost as much as I want to use the finished product, so being able to help with the process was quite high on my important items list.

If anyone is in the area, thinking of doing something like this, and wants to come observe / learn / pick John's brain while helping out for a few hours - I'm sure he would have no problem with it. Here is what we're working on:

- Replacing existing battery frame (install only - new frame already welded)
- Replacing 2 8g8d's batteries with 6 L16's
- Replacing original inverter with a 2800W pure sine Magnum
- Installing two separate morningstar 60A MPPT charge controllers for house batteries
- Installing a small 6-10 amp controller for engine battery maintenance.
- Putting as many darn panels on the roof as we can safely fit.
- Installing A/C soft start in one A/C, wiring it through inverter

Not sure how long it will take - but we'll be at it until we're done.  Will post pictures in the Reno section afterwards.
James
w/ DW Erin, sons Gideon and Tobias, cats Oscar & Oliver
Fulltime 1999 U270 34' #5508

Re: Solar Installation - 1st hand education

Reply #1 –
wow- great project.  Looking forward to seeing the posts on the project.

Are you going with wet or AGM L-16 batteries?  That will give you a lot more ah than with the 2 8g8d's. 

Thanks for sharing............... ^.^d
Ted & Karen
2001 U270 36' - sold after 12 years full timing

Re: Solar Installation - 1st hand education

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Blinded04 –
Will post pictures in the Reno section afterwards.
We'll hold you to that!  Sounds like a great educational opportunity for anyone who could attend, but for those who can't, photos are the next best thing.  Looking forward to your report.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Solar Installation - 1st hand education

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Ted & Karen –
Are you going with wet or AGM L-16 batteries?  That will give you a lot more ah than with the 2 8g8d's. 

AGMs.  And yes, it will!!  Furthermore, the batteries we have now are sorely underperforming and due for a changing - so looking forward to an improvement.
James
w/ DW Erin, sons Gideon and Tobias, cats Oscar & Oliver
Fulltime 1999 U270 34' #5508

Re: Solar Installation - 1st hand education

Reply #4 –
Howdy James, 
  Thank you for sharing this post.  I'll (and I'm sure others) will be closely following this project.  Just curious, are  you providing the material (solar panels, inverter, etc) or will John?
Thanks for posting.
Dave A
Dave and Nancy Abel
'00 U320 36' WTFE  Build #5669
'10 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon
Livingston, TX  SKP's Fulltiming

Re: Solar Installation - 1st hand education

Reply #5 –
We are providing the batteries, the new battery frame, the two 60A charge controllers, and the A/C soft start.  I wanted particular brands on these items that John did not carry.  Refreshingly, John didn't push back on any of this, and was encouraging that I bring what I was most comfortable with.

We'll be purchasing the Inverter, the battery monitor panel, the solar panels, the small engine maintenance charge controller, all mounting hardware, all wiring, and all connection hardware from John.
James
w/ DW Erin, sons Gideon and Tobias, cats Oscar & Oliver
Fulltime 1999 U270 34' #5508

Re: Solar Installation - 1st hand education

Reply #6 –
I'm assuming that you are going to maybe a 48 volt system and controllers and have multiple controllers to handle 12 volt loads and engine starting? What kind of performance do you expect in operating an air conditioner from your panels and battery bank?

Ed Schwerin
wannabe

Re: Solar Installation - 1st hand education

Reply #7 –
Ed,

We're still using a 12 V battery system, but we'll wire as many panels in series as we can to go into the controllers - the charge controllers can handle up to 150V.  We are doing layout in the morning to figure out exactly what type of panels and how many - but it looks like we'll have around 90-100 V on each controller.

After installing a soft start, the A/C falls within the specs of the chosen inverter, but not with a lot of room to sparw.  Everything in moderation, I say - I wouldn't want to be powering the A/C consistently off batteries even if I had 2000AH of lithium.  But I'm hoping to be able to use it for an hour on an unbearably hot day, maybe once a week.  My napkin calc says 80ah per hour of AC - probably more like 100 after heavy load efficiency loss.  I'll let you know if it's reasonable in about a week!
James
w/ DW Erin, sons Gideon and Tobias, cats Oscar & Oliver
Fulltime 1999 U270 34' #5508

Re: Solar Installation - 1st hand education

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Blinded04 –
Ed,
We're still using a 12 V battery system, but we'll wire as many panels in series as we can to go into the controllers - the charge controllers can handle up to 150V.  We are doing layout in the morning to figure out exactly what type of panels and how many - but it looks like we'll have around 90-100 V on each controller.
The 90-100 V is about perfect for sending to the controller. With about 80, I shocked myself pretty good a couple of times during installation.

You seem to have a realistic idea of how much you will be able to used the roof AC. I have been thinking about a low voltage, evaporate roof AC for dry summer climates. Nice to leave yourself room on the roof to be able to walk a little bit for maintenance. Not bad  to have a VW Vanagon as a toad with solid solar panels up top.

http://www.amazon.com/TurboKool-Motorhome-Battery-Evaporative-Conditioning/product-reviews/B007HRN2LS/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=recent#R1XDYRC4W53OSE

Have never even come close to having to start the generator in about 5 years even with a lot of big screen, microwave and lattemaker use.

Can tell you have it together well. Keep your info coming in.

Pierce

Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Solar Installation - 1st hand education

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart –

Have never even come close to having to start the generator in about 5 years even with a lot of big screen, microwave and lattemaker use.


I'm hoping I can say as much!! 

Pierce, take a look at the Micro Air Soft Start.  I was strongly considering a low V A/C replacement because none of the more popular soft starts had reliable data other than typical "UP TO 50% LESS" propaganda-type stuff.  The Micro-air website has a couple of installation videos - pretty each - and demo videos showing the power decrease in action.  When I looked at the hypothetical specs of the original A/C against a replacement low V one - they really weren't all that different.  The cost, however, was.

All theoretical though... will confirm functionality

Of course, if you live in a dry climate, and can get a reliable water source to the roof - that evaporation kit you linked would be the trump card in power consumption.
James
w/ DW Erin, sons Gideon and Tobias, cats Oscar & Oliver
Fulltime 1999 U270 34' #5508

Re: Solar Installation - 1st hand education

Reply #10 –
I was thinking that I would hate to lose the two roof ACs. They are almost new. But, then I realized that the 12V vent, either in the kitchen or bathroom could be removed and the evap unit installed there. The existing wiring would be fine and since it only uses 38 watts, it could run all night WITHOUT the inverter being on. With no sun, the cooling requirements would be much lower so those hot desert nights might be very comfortable. I recall Las Vegas being 104 degrees at one in the morning.

38 watts on the medium setting is nothing.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Solar Installation - 1st hand education

Reply #11 –
The micro-air soft start is the real deal. I called up and talked to their engineer how it works. It's very effective.  Dometic also makes a soft-start,but it doesn't work as well as the micro-air.  FYI, micro-air makes most of the control systems for dometic marine A/C.

Swamp coolers only work in the dry areas (like the desert, but they work well there). Swamp coolers are useless on the humid east coast. Removing humidity is more important than cooling the air....and it takes quite a bit more energy (latent heat).
1998 U270 34'

Re: Solar Installation - 1st hand education

Reply #12 –
Quote from: krush –
Swamp coolers only work in the dry areas (like the desert, but they work well there).
Don't swamp coolers use a lot of water, which is a precious commodity when you dry camp in the desert...?

When we had our Magnum 2812 inverter installed, I asked them to wire the front A/C power circuit through the inverter sub-panel.  I wanted to experiment with running one A/C unit on the inverter.  Without the benefit any sort of soft start, this proved to be impractical.  The inverter would shut off due to overload each time the A/C compressor tried to run.

However, we have found a use for this mod.  If we are sitting in the coach on medium-warm days - don't need the full A/C but would like a bit more air circulation inside the coach - we can turn on the front A/C unit in "FAN" setting.  Works fine on inverter.

1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Solar Installation - 1st hand education

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
Don't swamp coolers use a lot of water, which is a precious commodity when you dry camp in the desert...?
Good point! Users have reported the Turbokool uses 10 to 15 gal/day.

Looks as if you could easily make one using the housing from an old AC unit. Use the stock bathroom fan with the wires reversed and then follow the YouTube instructions. Almost free.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)