charger Problem

Topic: charger Problem (Read 910 times) previous topic - next topic

charger Problem

January 21, 2017, 05:53:28 pm

Freedom 20

I noticed a month ago that the charger was not on when the rig was plugged in (30 amp box). I reset the appropriate breaker (was not tripped), unplugged, plugged, pushed the little resets on the Freedom 20 and it started working. Had no idea which of my actions may have caused it to start.

Anyhow, today I noticed that again it was not charging. In addition, the Freedom 20's monitor Overload light was blinking. That light indicates thermal shutdown. The book recommends letting it cool and recycling. (the exterior of the box was cool to the touch). This time it did not resurrect. Everything else is working fine (all outlets, microwave, etc.).

Now for some weirdness. I unplugged and engaged the inverter. I then turned on the microwave and watched the amp readout on the Trimetric. 70, 80, 90, 125 - should have stopped here but it kept climbing. Was at about 200 amps when I managed to kill the microwave. I plugged back in and everything worked fine. Checked the Freedom 20 and the box exterior was not hot. I tried the microwave again on the inverter and it worked as it should. The charger, however, is not on.

For now, I've unplugged. Suggestions? Thanks.
jor

Re: charger Problem

Reply #1 – January 21, 2017, 11:47:47 pm

Sorry you are having problems.

Freedom 20 & 25 are modified sine wave, old and over time will fail, and sometimes it takes things with it when it goes. It has lived its life and it is time to change to a true sine wave new unit.

Re: charger Problem

Reply #2 – January 21, 2017, 11:51:59 pm

A freedom 25 killed 2 Cuisinart coffee makers before I realized it was the inverter not defective coffee makers. Went to a Xantrex SW 3012 no more problems.

Re: charger Problem

Reply #3 – January 22, 2017, 12:06:10 am

Agree, Pure Sine Wave is kinder to most things in your rv.

Re: charger Problem

Reply #4 – January 22, 2017, 12:12:04 am

Swap to a Magnum, outback, Or Victron for world class quality. The freedoms are not worth fixing or troubleshooting, according to what I have read.

Re: charger Problem

Reply #5 – January 22, 2017, 08:15:17 am

What Barry said...

Killed my microwave, surge proctor and ats

Re: charger Problem

Reply #6 – January 22, 2017, 10:46:12 am

Well, I guess it's new inverter time. I changed to a Magnum 2812 on our 320 as the previous owner had replaced the original Freedom with a Xantrex and I didn't trust it. I suppose I could get away with a lower powered unit on this rig (2 8Ds & 2 start batts with the microwave really the only high amp draw). 1500 or 2000 watts and maybe 100 amp charger instead of 125? Suggestions? One of these days I might even get this thing out of my driveway!
jor

Re: charger Problem

Reply #7 – January 22, 2017, 10:55:04 am

If there is not a big price difference get the bigger charger inverter, you can adjust charging amps if necessary. The idle amp draw is about the same on most of them and it will pass through more amps without over working the ATS inside.

Re: charger Problem

Reply #8 – January 22, 2017, 11:08:19 am

Here is a 2KW Victron from Bay Marine Supply, $1187.

Victron MultiPlus 12 Volt / 2000 VA / 80 Amp Pure Sine Wave Inverter/Charger

The 3KW is less than $300 more.

Re: charger Problem

Reply #9 – January 22, 2017, 11:16:35 am

Amazon.com: Outback-VFX2812: Cell Phones & Accessories

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: charger Problem

Reply #10 – January 22, 2017, 06:43:03 pm

Thanks for these recommendations and I will research them. I checked today and the Freedom 20 uses 2 ot cabling and I'd like to not have to replace those cables if I can avoid it. Our 320 had 3 ot which was not recommended by Magnum so I went up to the required 4 ot. It's interesting buying that big cable; they sell it by the inch!
jor

Re: charger Problem

Reply #11 – January 22, 2017, 09:22:01 pm

John, I think you will find that the battery cables are 3-0. The Freedom 20 that I removed from ours was 2-0 and those cables are permanently mounted inside the inverter. They must have come from the factory like that as I had to nearly completely disassemble the inverter to get at the negative terminal. You could cut them off and re terminate of course, but the bigger the cable the better...
Don

Re: charger Problem

Reply #12 – January 22, 2017, 09:58:15 pm

Lots of info on converting from Freedom to another inverter charger. Freedom battery cables have the spade terminal bolted INSIDE the Freedom, which must be taken apart to reuse cables. We reused our Freedom battery cables and terminals, and did not buy new battery cables. We did not cut the original cables or put a new terminal on them.
On determining what size of inverter to buy, all electronics are happier are happier if not used to rated power, so we don't count on ever drawing anything near our maximum inverter capacity. So larger size than ever planning to use may have benefits.

Re: charger Problem

Reply #13 – January 22, 2017, 10:14:05 pm

X2 on the Victron but I think you will be ahead if you pony up for the 3000.

Re: charger Problem

Reply #14 – January 22, 2017, 10:43:19 pm

(2) 2-0 cables may be able to transmit more power safer than a 4-0 due to the shear fact that you may have more terminal contact area, and the surface area ratio of the wire insulation to copper core area is greater. Just food for thought before pitching the smaller cable you already have. In other words less overheating.

Re: charger Problem

Reply #15 – January 22, 2017, 11:16:40 pm

Quote

John, I think you will find that the battery cables are 3-0. The Freedom 20 that I removed from ours was 2-0 and those cables are permanently mounted inside the inverter.

I think you are corrrecto, Don. I was looking at the cables at the inverter and saw the "welding cable 2/0" designation. The cables coming into the batteries are 3/0. Still checking out the different inverters. In the 320 I had the Magnum with the nifty monitor and batt temp option and it worked well. The others mentioned seem to be good too.
jor

Re: charger Problem

Reply #16 – January 23, 2017, 01:33:43 am

When I added a battery monitor to my Magnum MS-2812 system, I called Magnum to check on the wiring requirement. Their tech told me the minimum was 4/0 and they recommended two 4/0 cables. I assume some of that is due to the planned load and length of cable runs.

Trent

Re: charger Problem

Reply #17 – January 23, 2017, 11:17:47 am

Quote

4/0 cables. I assume some of that is due to the planned load and length of cable runs.

In our 320 the inverter was on the opposite side of the rig as the coach batteries so the cable run was relatively long. I recall the documentation clearly stated that 4/0 cabling was necessary but I don't remember if that was a general requirement or one related to the length of the run. I'm looking now at what I can find on the Magnum site and it looks like any run 3' to 10' requires 4/0. Still checking though.
jor

Re: charger Problem

Reply #18 – January 23, 2017, 11:19:58 am

Quote

We reused our Freedom battery cables and terminals, and did not buy new battery cables. We did not cut the original cables or put a new terminal on them.

Barry, does this mean that you used 2/0 cabling? What model is your inverter? Thanks.
jor

Re: charger Problem

Reply #19 – January 23, 2017, 12:48:35 pm

I'm going to go with the Magnum 2812. I have autostart on my gen already. Is there any reason to buy ARC50 panel rather than the RC50 panel? Thanks.
jor

Re: charger Problem

Reply #20 – January 23, 2017, 01:51:44 pm

Jor:
Did you check the connectors at the battery and particularly the inverter? Are they tight and clean? Did the connectors get hot to the touch after using the inverter? Dismantle the connections and check for corrosion or a white power, particularly if they are hot after using the inverter. Clean and reconnect all connections. Any corrosion, white powder, or heat indicates a high resistance connection. My microwave/convection oven will draw 140 or 150 amps on microwave and even 160 on convection. I agree, 200 amps is too high, but it could be that high due to dirty connections.

Wire Gauge:
The gauge of the wire that you need for your inverter does not depend on the make of your inverter so asking the supplier for advice on wire gauge will not provide good results unless the supplier asks how many feet of wire is required. If the supplier does not ask that question, do not believe his answer. Search for "wire length gauge chart" on the internet and look at some of the many charts and tables that will be listed. Three items dictate the wire gauge required: the maximum number of amps, the length of wire, and the desired voltage drop. The make or model of inverter is not in the equation!

Inverter Size:
I recommend a 2KW inverter because it will run anything that can be plugged into a duplex receptacle while drawing a maximum of about 160 amps. Manage your power demands by using only one "big amp" electrical device at a time. "Big amp" devices include ceramic heaters, microwave, and anything that requires more than 10 amps. I do not recommend a 3 KW inverter because it could draw up to 240 amps, so require larger gauge supply wires, be larger/heavier and cost more than a 2KW inverter. My wife will occasionally blow the breaker because she turns on the micro while brewing a pot of coffee. A 3KW inverter would fix that, but not coffee brewer, micro, air curler, TV, and blue ray simultaneously. At some point you must limit your power use with an inverter.

Re: charger Problem

Reply #21 – January 23, 2017, 01:54:50 pm

Opps, meant "hair curler" not "air curler"

Re: charger Problem

Reply #22 – January 23, 2017, 07:07:39 pm

Quote from: jor – January 23, 2017, 12:48:35 pm

I have autostart on my gen already. Is there any reason to buy ARC50 panel rather than the RC50 panel?

Yes!

I have the ME-RC50. The ME-ARC50 has a couple of extra features. They both have five push buttons at the bottom of the display. The right three are the same on both of them: METER, SETUP, and TECH. The two on the left are different.

On the ME-RC50 (Standard Remote Control), they are labeled: SHORE and AGS.

On the ME-ARC50 (Advanced Remote Control), they are lableled : FAVS and CTRL.

I have not used the ARC50, but have looked at the manual. One of the advanced features is to select several report screens and assign them to the FAVS button. Thereafter, you can push the FAVS button and scroll through your subset of views and not have to use the roatary button to scroll though all of the screens to find the ones in which you are interested.

There may be some other features, but I do not know about them. When I discovered the FAVS button, I looked into replacing the MRC50 with the ARC50 (about $300 IIRC, so did not happen). Not a deal breaker, but given the choice, I would definitely buy the ARC50 instead of the RC50.

Hope this helps,

Trent

Re: charger Problem

Reply #23 – January 23, 2017, 09:09:36 pm

Trent, thanks for the info on the ARC50.

Wyatt,

Quote

Did you check the connectors at the battery and particularly the inverter? Are they tight and clean? Did the connectors get hot to the touch after using the inverter?

All connections are tight and shiny. Nothing got hot. The runaway amp reading on the Trimetric has not repeated. Someone over at rv.net mentioned that his Trimetric did the same thing one time and a reset fixed it. This could be a meter problem. I did not have the presence of mind to glance up at the Freedom's monitor to see that readout. Nothing got hot and the microwave worked fine during the event and afterward.

Quote

Search for "wire length gauge chart"

The Magnum manual has a wire gauge chart.

Quote

I recommend a 2KW inverter

That's where I started. I found a 2800 (2812) for $1,587 but the 2000s (2012) are as much or more than this price except for one on eBay for $1,100 but he's not a big seller so who knows.

So... the inverter continues to work fine but the converter is out for the count.
jor

Re: charger Problem

Reply #24 – February 16, 2017, 06:45:19 pm

OP here closing out this thread. I ended up going with the Magnum 2800 as the 2000 didn't represent much of a savings. I got advice from forum members regarding cabling but ultimately went with 0000 which is what the Magnum documentation calls for. I replaced the Freedom's 00 cable with 0000 between the inverter and the batteries and rewired the parallel connection between the two 8Ds with 0000 also.

I ended up buying some lugs and a crimper and making up my own cable. Pretty good time. I used a Temco manual crimper which did the 0000 lugs with little effort.

So now I've got a pretty good setup with the Magnum's battery temp sensor, Trimetric for accurate data and an EMS to keep track of the AC stuff.
jor

Affiliate Notice