Waterless coolant

Topic: Waterless coolant (Read 778 times) previous topic - next topic

Waterless coolant

November 11, 2017, 06:22:26 pm

I have just become aware of this product. Someone educate me. Any of you racer guys using this? Evans coolant stops engine problems due to water

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #1 – November 11, 2017, 06:41:33 pm

Been using it for years in bikes . They make a diesel product. $1CB

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #2 – November 11, 2017, 07:16:56 pm

Looking at their web site it looks like the Holy Grail of the coolant world. Its pricey for sure but if its that good I would be tempted to convert.

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #3 – November 11, 2017, 07:51:48 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – November 11, 2017, 06:41:33 pm

Been using it for years in bikes . They make a diesel product. $1CB

I almost did the switch on my class 8 truck 10-15 years ago. But just didn't get around to it. The current coolant system has to be very dry before the switch and my truck was a FedEx truck that had to be on the road every day.
I would be highly suspicious of a diesel version. Last I checked the source of the heat needing to be transferred to the coolant, Then the air shouldn't make a bit of difference. !0-15 years ago their was only one version of Evans coolant.

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #4 – November 11, 2017, 07:58:07 pm

Do a search and read the New York City trash truck test. For sure Evans diesel. 3% or less water? They have a system cleaner before installation I think

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #5 – November 11, 2017, 08:14:27 pm

"The industry's best liner pitting protection"............that quality alone makes it worth the price.

But I don't want to be in Big Bend, Texas, spring a leak in my cooling system and not be able add any water or antifreeze.

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #6 – November 12, 2017, 02:29:50 am

One of the big issues with the Evans coolant is that the thermal property of 100% Glycol (Evans) is that it as less ability to transfer heat than water based coolants. This isn't an issue for the Evans coolant as it doesn't boil till 475. But then your "normal" engine coolant temp will be higher at the same load with Evans than with conventional coolant. This of course will then throw heat into your oil. And as the normal engine temp will be higher. Your fan will run all the time unless it can be reprogrammed. Which I take it is possible on our coaches.

Plus as T-man says. What happens if you lose some coolant and your in Timbuktu nowhere.

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #7 – November 12, 2017, 09:22:37 am

We had a many year discussion of the heat transfer abilities of non and water based coolants.

As the interior parts of the engine heat past the boiling point of the water micro bubbles form on the metal surfaces. That's insulates the surfaces and slows the heat transfer below the non water Evans, no bubbles.

Below the water components boiling temp the water antifreeze conducts heat better than the non water.

Above that temp the water transfers less.

The radiator cap is to reduce the size of the bubbles.

Evans has no bubbles. You can leave the cap off and nothing happens.

System is under much less pressure which is a good thing.

The mid bore support of the Diesel engines liner is their to lessen the liners wear from the cavitation caused by the boiling water that erodes the liner.

No boiling. No wear.

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #8 – November 12, 2017, 10:41:39 am

Quote from: Caflashbob – November 12, 2017, 09:22:37 am

No boiling. No wear.

There shouldn't be any boiling of any cooling system, as the pressure cap keeps that from happening.

"Liner pitting, or cavitation-erosion, occurs along the thrust angle of the piston. The liner sits inside the block, and 'rings' like a bell every time that the cylinder fires. This ringing causes intense pressure changes at the cylinder wall, resulting in liner cavitation.
Bubbles form when the piston 'rings' the cylinder during the combustion explosion. These bubbles, imploding against the liner as it collapses them under pressure, gradually, but fatally, attack and bore through the liner."

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #9 – November 12, 2017, 10:45:04 am

Quote from: Travelin' Man – November 12, 2017, 10:41:39 am

"Liner pitting, or cavitation-erosion, occurs along the thrust angle of the piston. The liner sits inside the block, and 'rings' like a bell every time that the cylinder fires. This ringing causes intense pressure changes at the cylinder wall, resulting in liner cavitation.
Bubbles form when the piston 'rings' the cylinder during the combustion explosion. These bubbles, imploding against the liner as it collapses them under pressure, gradually, but fatally, attack and bore through the liner."

Exactly the reason that diesels, particularly those with linered engines require coolants specifically formulated to address this issue.

So, for those new to diesels, a good way to destroy a diesel engine is to use "regular"/automotive/gasoline engine-formulated coolant.

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #10 – November 12, 2017, 10:52:54 am

Said another way use what the engine manufacturer specifies and thing will work just fine.

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #11 – November 12, 2017, 12:02:01 pm

If I remember my diesel theory. A bit more heat in the engine does help the combustion process. But it was the water based coolants propensity for cavitation on the liners that limited the operational temps and is the weakest link in the chain, Not the engine or fuel. And yes the Evans will allow a higher temp without cavitation. But that extra heat will effect the oil temps. Of course if one is using an approved full synthetic, Then that extra heat (in the form of higher oil temps) will not be detrimental to the oil or engine. But then comes the next question. How much money are you willing to spend to fix an issue that simply slowing down on a long climb would likely prevent said cavitation issue in the first place.

But going back to what prompted me to post in the first place & I forgot to mention. (I'm easily side tracked at times) And that was the Diesel specific Evans being more costly. All the Evans coolants are 100% Glycol without additives and are a lifetime coolant in all applications. To me it's just another in the long line of the practice of gouging people over the title of their vehicle. All they did was add a different color and called it "heavy duty" and increased the price by $5 per Gallon. It might not be much more. But just on principle it gets my dander up.

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #12 – November 12, 2017, 12:30:57 pm

The non corrosive nature of the non water Evans is why a lot of classic car collectors switched to Evans. Non replaceable parts for some.

The Evans went through am exhaustive multi unit trash truck test long ago. Used to be on Evans website with a link I think.

The Evans diesel probably has the specific additive that Brett mentioned in it which I assume is not free of cost to add.

The recent availability of lifetime coolants for and by Cummins seems that the idea works well.

No way I would not put a lifetime coolant in ours at the change.

I would pay more for a resale coach knowing it was not at least a coach buck out of my pocket immediately as my trust factor is near zero upon purchase

Evans is or was used in m1 Abrams tanks and many other military vehicles as the non corrosive and almost no pressure in the system made the equipment more reliable for our war fighters

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #13 – November 12, 2017, 08:34:29 pm

I think I had read that they had many overheating issues when used. IIRC. internet search and read thoroughly before you attempt a change. Hate to spend that kind of money for a change that hurt the engine. I read it when I was looking at my overheating problem. Might have been dependent on engine also..but again, not sure

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #14 – November 12, 2017, 09:03:05 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – November 12, 2017, 12:30:57 pm

The non corrosive nature of the non water Evans is why a lot of classic car collectors switched to Evans.

Distilled water isn't corrosive.

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #15 – November 12, 2017, 10:07:57 pm

I have built 250 400-613cc single cylinder four stroke engines since 2003. Tested both Evans and Honda antifreeze(non silicatej extensively.

Heard all the heat transfer stories. Total race desert racers. Winter guys. High hour street guys.

Transfers heat at least as good as 50/50 antifreeze with better seal wear protection just like the non silicate.

If you overheat it is not the Evans. There were/are specific viscosities of Evans designed for different radiator tubing size.

Like I said twice read the trash truck test. They assumed it would cause problems. Found it worked perfectly.

Plus 1 to 2 psi pressure was much less stressful on parts.

I heard Mercedes came with a version of Evans. Allowed a smaller radiator. Seriously.

We had running battles on my motorcycle brands website for 5 years.

I offerr every customer a 200 hour warranty on my motor rebuilds and recommended Evans.

Too many long conversations. No longer mention anything. Exact same results.

Like I said the recent posts of lifetime coolants would seem to be similar to Evans. From Cummins themselves? Or shell?

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #16 – November 12, 2017, 10:22:57 pm

Quote from: Travelin' Man – November 12, 2017, 09:03:05 pm

Distilled water isn't corrosive.

Ultra pure water is an industrial solvent, that is looking for minerals to absorb in order to become balanced, and highly corrosive especially if it contains oxygen.good news is that high temps drive out oxygen.

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #17 – November 12, 2017, 10:27:46 pm

I never see it for sale anywhere, like truck stops, truck dealerships and truck service centers.

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #18 – November 12, 2017, 10:29:23 pm

Quote from: Old phart phred – November 12, 2017, 10:22:57 pm

Ultra pure water is an industrial solvent, that is looking for minerals to absorb in order to become balanced, and highly corrosive especially if it contains oxygen.good news is that high temps drive out oxygen.

It's not ultra-pure, just distilled. "Distillation alone is not capable of producing water pure enough to be corrosive."

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #19 – November 12, 2017, 10:41:15 pm

Fluids that are not moving due to the fact that they are in isolated pockets do not transfer heat very well. That's why you need water to boil and then the steam bubbles to move and naturally collapse and create flow when they mix with cooler water.

Re: Waterless coolant

Reply #20 – November 13, 2017, 12:41:13 am

I flushed with deionized water and used 60 water 40% elc coolant which should give about 20% better heat transfer and freeze protection to -13f which is plenty for anywhere I plan to visit. The Evans is something I always wanted to try but never had a totally dry system nor knew how to totally dry a system, thus remained a curiosity.

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