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Inverter question

I have moved my coach to a new fully enclosed storage facility.  The problem that when I plug the coach in it kicks the GFI instantly when I hear the inverter kick in.  The coach still has the Zantrex 2500 inverter.  I have had it plugged into 20amp service in the past with no issues.  The only difference I see is the facility has a GFI outlet where I plug in, where the prior facility did not.  The wire run here is very short compared to the prior storage facility.  Both had 20amp service.  This is a new facility and I am the first one to use this garage.  The owner has replaced the GFI with a new high quality 20amp GFI. 
I have the coach on a battery charger/maintainer drawing 6.85amps with no problems on the same electrical outlet.
Any ideas???
John and Stacey Smith
Motorcade NO: 11973
1997 U295 CSGI 40'..Build No. 5036     
920 Watts on the roof..CAT Power w/fuel Inj. Programmer
2021 GMC Sierra AT4 1500
EX..2015 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
Ex 1990 U280 RSAI 36'..Build No. 3638

Re: Inverter question

Reply #1 –
Quote from: John  and Stacey –
I have moved my coach to a new fully enclosed storage facility.  The problem that when I plug the coach in it kicks the GFI instantly when I hear the inverter kick in.  The coach still has the Zantrex 2500 inverter.  I have had it plugged into 20amp service in the past with no issues.  The only difference I see is the facility has a GFI outlet where I plug in, where the prior facility did not.  The wire run here is very short compared to the prior storage facility.  Both had 20amp service.  This is a new facility and I am the first one to use this garage.  The owner has replaced the GFI with a new high quality 20amp GFI. 
I have the coach on a battery charger/maintainer drawing 6.85amps with no problems on the same electrical outlet.

I can't explain it myself, something to do with neutral and ground differences between motorhome and non motorhome wiring. I tried mine in my shed with a gfi socket and it kept tripping gfi socket.  Had a 4 outlet power strip with a 15 amp breaker and reset built in. For some reason, it worked without tripping  the gfi. Maybe a fluke, but worth a try.


Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Inverter question

Reply #2 –
You should get a tester and test the outlet in the storage area and make sure it is wired correctly.  Also put a meter on it and read the voltage.
John M.

Power Gear GFCI Tester-50957 - The Home Depot
John & Carm Morales

"We travel not to go anywhere, but to just go.  We travel for travel's sake.  Our great desire is to move."

Re: Inverter question

Reply #3 –
I could not plug our 03 320 into a gfi receptacle as it would always trip the receptacle.
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins

Re: Inverter question

Reply #4 –
I have the GFCI Tester and all is fine......My dependable old Simpson and Fluke Meter both read 112V.  Going to change out the GFCI to a std receptacle tomorrow as my 12 year old batteries are not thrilled with this continuing situation.....Jim C you took great care of these batteries when she was yours and they are taking great care of me.
John
John and Stacey Smith
Motorcade NO: 11973
1997 U295 CSGI 40'..Build No. 5036     
920 Watts on the roof..CAT Power w/fuel Inj. Programmer
2021 GMC Sierra AT4 1500
EX..2015 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
Ex 1990 U280 RSAI 36'..Build No. 3638

Re: Inverter question

Reply #5 –
The outlets for home and businesses have the neutral and ground bonded, where as the motor homes are not. I think this might be the issue
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Inverter question

Reply #6 –
Quote from: John  and Stacey –
I have the GFCI Tester and all is fine......My dependable old Simpson and Fluke Meter both read 112V.  Going to change out the GFCI to a std receptacle tomorrow as my 12 year old batteries are not thrilled with this continuing situation.....Jim C you took great care of these batteries when she was yours and they are taking great care of me.
John
Probably your best option..... GFCI's don't like large inductive loads, the Xantrex 2500 is a lot larger load than the battery charger/maintainer..... you could possibly use a battery disconnect switch until the Xantrex is powered up then close the switch to the batteries. Might work..... but if it were me I would opt not to use a GFCI for that purpose.
Justin & Cathy Byrd
1995 U280 "Old Faithful"
36' Build #4673
C8.3 Cummins
Allison MD3060R 6 speed - retarder
Powertech 10KW  4cyl Kubota

Re: Inverter question

Reply #7 –
This is a pretty common problem. As Craneman said "The outlets for home and businesses have the neutral and ground bonded, where as the motor homes are not. I think this might be the issue". The GFCI outlets trip when they sense and imbalance between neutral and ground.  In the coach these are independent and the loads in the coach are not always balanced.

So what do you do?  The GFCI outlet is likely there to meet code.  A 30 or 50 amp outlet would probably mot be ground fault protected. Turn off the Xantrex.  Plug in an extension cord to the GFCI and then a battery charger into that and hook it up to the batteries. Use a smart charger that will go to float when the batteries are charged.  A couple amps per battery is plenty. 
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: Inverter question

Reply #8 –
Disable your coaches GFCI outlet usually in bathroom.  I think you will find GFCI do not like downstream GFCI outlets.  Probably does not have anything to do with neutral-ground bonding.  GFCI looks at hot and neutral for a balanced current flow.

Re: Inverter question

Reply #9 –
Had the same problem on a previous coach. Changed the inverter setting to 15 amps to limit the charger. No more problem.

Have no idea why this worked, charger was never pulling over 5 amps.
Mike & Molly Patronick
2001 U320 40'
2011 Forester

Re: Inverter question

Reply #10 –
Problem solved.  Removed the GFCI outlet.  Everyone is happy.
As always, thank you all for you suggestions, this forum is thew best.
John
John and Stacey Smith
Motorcade NO: 11973
1997 U295 CSGI 40'..Build No. 5036     
920 Watts on the roof..CAT Power w/fuel Inj. Programmer
2021 GMC Sierra AT4 1500
EX..2015 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
Ex 1990 U280 RSAI 36'..Build No. 3638

Re: Inverter question

Reply #11 –
John,
Just to be clear, you changed the GFCI outlet to a standard one in the storage facility? If so, I am surprised that the management allowed you to do it given the fear of litigation that all businesses seem to have these days. Or... you changed the bathroom GFCI to a standard outlet?
Don
Quote from: John  and Stacey –
Problem solved.  Removed the GFCI outlet.  Everyone is happy.
As always, thank you all for you suggestions, this forum is thew best.
John
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Inverter question

Reply #12 –
The boating world is beginning `to see lots of GFI problems from new pedestals constructed to new standards.
Here is a portion of a letter on my trawler list pointing to good references on the issue.

There are lots of similarities in the electrical area.

HTH
Keith,
I thought I posted on this recently in response to a similar request.  I have written a great deal about this situation, and all of my articles are on my personal website.

First, run the "AC Safety Tests" I describe here: AC Safety Tests for Boats | Cruising Aboard Monk36 Trawler Sanctuary <https://gilwellbear.wordpress.com/category/boat-technical-topics/electrical-topics/boat-ac-topics/ac-safety-tests-for-boats/>

Then, read this article for the less obvious things that can cause ground faults, and particularly iNTERMITTENT ground faults:  Ground Faults and Ground Fault Sensors | Cruising Aboard Monk36 Trawler... <https://gilwellbear.wordpress.com/category/boat-technical-topics/electrical-topics/boat-ac-topics/ground-faults-and-ground-fault-sensors/>
It sounds like you have either commingled neutrals or neutrals commingled with grounds on the boat.  That would be common enough in a residence, but is NEVER acceptable on boats.

...snip...

Hope this helps get you started.

Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary, currently at Rock Creek, Pasadena, MD
Cruising Aboard Monk36 Trawler Sanctuary | Cruising Adventures in Another Life <http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com/>
Monk 36 Hull #132
MMSI #367042570
AGLCA #3767
MTOA #3436
Elliott & Mary Bray
ex. 1996 36' U295 - Build 4879
ex. 2018 Coachmen Leprechaun 319MB
 

Re: Inverter question

Reply #13 –
Don, I changed the one out in the storage facility.  It is not a problem as they are outside the city limit and therefore not subject to that code requirement.  He had put them in as a safety precaution.  He has had a few issues besides mine.
John
John and Stacey Smith
Motorcade NO: 11973
1997 U295 CSGI 40'..Build No. 5036     
920 Watts on the roof..CAT Power w/fuel Inj. Programmer
2021 GMC Sierra AT4 1500
EX..2015 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
Ex 1990 U280 RSAI 36'..Build No. 3638
 

Re: Inverter question

Reply #14 –
If you read the articles that  Elliot referenced, it is easy to see the problems. Early Gfi's were to protect one or two devices,eg. your electric razor in the bathroom. A motorhome, like a boat, has lot of different equipment in it, with a lot of wiring to feed it. One wiring mistake like using ground in a socket, instead of neutral, will probably not affect the operation, but will trip the main gfi. Also good points about lack of neutral/ground bonding relays, in some inverters .
Many electric water heater have a very slight current leakage from the element, not enough to affect the operation, but enough to trip the gfi.  While everything made for your rv should be compatible with a  gfi,  the parts and pieces come from so many places, it is hard to insure they will..
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.