Generator won't start

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Generator won't start

May 12, 2018, 06:26:27 pm

Last weekend while working on the coach, I got the engine to start and drove it about 15 miles. I had the generator running while I was working on it, but it had apparently stopped while driving. Parked the coach and stopped the engine. Tried the engine and it started perfectly. Turned it off till the next day to take it to get new tires put on. Came back on Saturday, engine wouldn't crank. Generator wouldn't run hardly, spit an sputtered and finally wouldn't start at all.
Suspected that might be clogged fuel filter since the coach had been in storage through the winter. Figured the drive might have stirred up algae/water and plugged filter. Purchased new filters and put one on today. I was surprised that there was no slime, black anything in the filter. Appeared to be clean diesel fuel. Put some diesel fuel in new filter and still no start.
The small solenoid above the fuel filter was quite warm after several attempts to start.
Is their a manual primer for the Kubota diesel engine? What else can I be missing?

Thanks for suggestions.
Larry

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #1 – May 12, 2018, 09:33:07 pm

Have diesel fuel lines ever been replaced? I'd check supply line cracks, hard starting can be first sign of failure.

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #2 – May 12, 2018, 11:31:50 pm

Larry,

It could be a weak fuel pump. I had the same symptoms with hard starts, sputtering and stopping. After removing the old pump and cleaning, bleeding the fuel line from the banjo plug, I still had the same problem. Dave M. recommended replacing the old worn out pump with a new Facet #477060E. FACET GOLD-FLO INTERRUPTER TYPE PUMPS from Aircraft Spruce

It cured my problems but I still have to bleed the line if I let it sit up a couple of weeks. I haven't replaced the old lines yet. Toward the end of this video on replacing the fuel lines from Gregory Jones it will show a new Facet pump and where the banjo plug is located.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaFPB1O36N4&t=11s

Jerry

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #3 – May 12, 2018, 11:37:29 pm

Is it only the gen that won't start, or also the main coach engine?

If only gen, is the coolant up to the top on the filler neck? If yes, I would check fuses on gen, and possibly suspect the oil pressure switch has gone bad.

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #4 – May 13, 2018, 07:03:36 am

Does the oil pressure switch have a 10 second delay? I thought it does since it takes a few seconds for the pressure to come up.
If the coolant level is low in the radiator could that be an indicator that the radiator cap is bad or the overflow tube is sucking air?

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #5 – May 13, 2018, 08:07:18 am

just to clarify.............. neither engine will crank? When they both cranked and ran fine before the test drive?

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #6 – May 13, 2018, 08:24:38 am

Jack,
Have only done a cursory inspection of the fuel lines at the gen engine. Didn't see any cracks, but it is on my radar with the age of the coach for both the gen as well as the main lines.

Jerry,
Amazing video. I wondered about the pump, didn't know how to easily check it. I thought the preheat was for glow plugs didn't realize that it activated the pump. Will be checking it out this afternoon for sure.

Dan,
At the moment, neither engine will start. The main engine is another issue from another thread, I believe it to be the starter since it won't crank. Am in the process of changing starters. One bolt stands in my way. I will check the coolant level. Haven't checked it since it went into storage last year. If that isn't it, will locate oil pressure switch and see. Dipstick shows oil level full.

Thanks everyone for your help. Wouldn't know what to do without these great suggestions.

Larry

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #7 – May 13, 2018, 08:31:34 am

Four travelers,
Just saw your comment. Actually the generator was running until the drive. The engine wouldn't start coming out of storage. Asked for help and went down the list of suggestions from the forum members. Magically, the engine started after persuading the starter solenoid. Took a 15 mile drive where the generator stopped for whatever reason to be determined yet. Came back last Saturday to get the coach, no start again. Have since replaced the start solenoid & aux/boost solenoids by the isolator, and have a new starter to be installed as soon as I get the last bolt out of the old starter.

In a nutshell, that is where I'm at. Life is fun..............

Larry

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #8 – May 13, 2018, 08:37:23 am

Ok...... now a silly question but I have to ask............ could the fuel level be at or near 1/4 mark?

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #9 – May 13, 2018, 08:49:30 am

FourTravelers
No, I have 5/8 of a tank. Since it isn't full, I suspected that I may have gotten algae in the tank and that the drive had stirred it up plugging the gen fuel filter. When I pulled the filter, the fuel was very clean surprisingly with no signs of contamination. I think that is a good thing, it just would have been nice to have figured it out first. If it is a pump, sensor or whatever, these are quicker fixes than cleaning out algae, especially if it were to plug the main engine filter somewhere on the side of a 2 lane road

Larry

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #10 – May 13, 2018, 11:17:38 am

Take the top cap off the air cleaner housing and try to start it I had the air intake was clogged

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #11 – May 13, 2018, 11:39:22 am

Wow, hard to imagine an air filter so clogged it would not allow sufficient CFM to start/idle the engine.

Were their bird or rodent nests involved?

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #12 – May 13, 2018, 11:45:16 am

You need to crack an injector line open. Put a rag under it and crank. If fuel spits out your pump is good. If it starts close the injector line and if it dies you have air in the line most likely caused by a crack in the supply line. I replaced mine, it is very simple.

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #13 – May 13, 2018, 02:10:57 pm

I guess that from your 5/8 tank of fuel that it was stored with that amount of fuel in it. If so, I would recommend that you always store the coach with a full tank of fuel. In general, I always fill my tank after a trip no matter when I plan to go out again. Lots of good reasons for that. ---- Have a great day ---- Fritz

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #14 – May 13, 2018, 02:26:55 pm

Larry, is this a Kubota or an Isuzu engine? You mentioned that the main engine would not crank, but I was unclear on the generator - does it crank?
If you suspect the fuel filter, there are a couple of ways of checking it. 1- Do as was suggested, loosen the plug to the injectors or one of the injectors. If you see some bubbles when cranking and then fuel, you will know that there was air in the line and that the pump works.
You can also jump the fuel pump directly. If you attach a wire to the positive terminal and touch it against a 12v source (relay in control box, lug on the back of the generator coming from the house batteries or a car battery) fuel should flow. You might be able to feel it vibrate when you don't also have the engine being engaged by the starter. In my case, I disconnected the tube leading to the injectors and put it into a jar, so was certain that it was pumping fuel and no air. Of course you will have to bleed the air out if you do what I did. Bleeding is a simple procedure.

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #15 – May 13, 2018, 06:37:52 pm

Wolfe10 2002 U 270 Kabota 10KW generator I would not have believed it myself but it made no sense ,would not start checked everything and I decided if it's not fuel it had to be air took the lid off and it fired right up and ran perfectly when I installed the lid when running it completely died instantly I have not inspected to see what the problem was it's put away right now in storage I have noted that the insulation had fallen on the top and I'm not sure if that's what happened on the rear there's also a white panel that's blocking the back I will definitely figure it out once I get home

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #16 – May 13, 2018, 06:41:20 pm

Ok, here is todays update. Coolant level was a little low. I put about a quart in to fill it to the top.
The air filter looked practically brand new. No problem.
Tried the preheat and cracked the bleed nut. Nothing. Could not determine if the pump was even operating. When I checked the wire going into the pump, it showed that I was getting 10.7 volts. Is that enough? The only markings on the pump that I could make out was some patent numbers and the word "flow" with an arrow showing fuel flow direction. Any other good ways to check it?

Sven, this is a 3 cyl Kubota engine. I will try to jumper the wire to see if the pump flows. Right now, it is my main suspect.

Fritz, agree with the fuel tank being full. Work situation prevented me from being able to get back to the coach. I was worried about water &/or algae which is why I changed the filter. Perfectly clean green diesel. Drained some out of the main engine filter, same thing. No water or contaminants to be seen. I only see this as dumb luck.

Any other suggestions welcomed.
Thanks,
Larry

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #17 – May 13, 2018, 06:44:27 pm

John,
I was writing while you posted. Do you mean that you took the filter out of the equation? I didn't try cranking while I had the filter out. It is a Donaldson filter, looked very clean and only had a tiny bit of dust settled in the cap. I didn't think that air flow was the problem potential.

Thanks,
Larry

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #18 – May 13, 2018, 06:54:27 pm

No air filter cleaner canister lid , by now you must of been able to disconnect the fuel line from the electric fuel pump push the button to have it start and you already know that you're getting plenty of fuel to the engine if it's not the fuel then it has to be the air so just allow some more air to see if you have a restriction it's a longshot but that's what happened to mine it ran fine one day and the next it did not The air filter cleaner looked perfect but it's the restriction from the inlet hose to the air cleaner that was the problem

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #19 – May 13, 2018, 06:57:28 pm

Thanks John, it is worth a look, once I start getting fuel

Larry

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #20 – May 13, 2018, 07:38:48 pm

Sorry I miss read that you are not getting fuel😂

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #21 – May 13, 2018, 10:19:02 pm

When the pump is running during pre heat you should be able to hear it running. It will be a repetitive clicking noise. Not real loud but audibkenif nothing else is running.

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #22 – May 13, 2018, 11:28:12 pm

I believe that running the electric fuel pump while the injector is cracked open is an insufficient test. The fuel gets to the injectors via the high pressure injector pump which only pumps while the engine is cranking.

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #23 – May 14, 2018, 05:25:40 pm

I would put the facet fuel pump on it and bet she runs.. If it doesn't, leave the facet on and put the old one in a box to carry for a spare. That was the culprit on my Kubota. I have also replaced water temp sensors and oil pressure sensors. Either will shut it down by sending bad engine safety info. I would start with the fuel pump. Think I paid 70.00 bucks thru Facet. I am used to throwing parts at a problem but these aren't expensive parts and you can always use the spare if not needed now so no money is wasted.

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #24 – May 14, 2018, 07:02:08 pm

Thanks for the input everyone. I didn't hear or feel anything on the pump while trying the preheat. Like Dub said, if I have a spare when it is over all the better. Same with my starter problem on another thread. Could have just replaced the solenoid I suspect. Already going to have it all off, I feel better having all brand new. Makes me believe that I won't have a starter issue for a number of years. As has been said on the forum before, " Do what makes you feel fuzzy".

Thanks again, keep em coming,
Larry

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