Changing starter on M11 engine

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Changing starter on M11 engine

May 12, 2018, 06:34:44 pm

I believe that I have chased down my no start issue on the coach to a bad starter solenoid. Have purchased a new Delco-Remy starter to replace the 22 yr old one. Figured if I had it out already, might as well replace the starter with the solenoid.

For those who have done this before, What did you do to remove the top mounting bolt in the starter? It takes a 12 pt 5/8" wrench/socket. I got the bottom ones off with an end wrench with a cheater. I can get on the top bolt with a 12 pt socket, and 21" of extensions, but my cordless impact doesn't have enough ooommmpah to break it. I couldn't get it to break loose with a breaker bar.

I hope to get answers on another post for my generator not running. If I get the gen running, I will have 120v available to run ymy air compressor to run my air impact. It might have enought to break it.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Larry

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #1 – May 12, 2018, 06:48:39 pm

Any way you can run the cordless impact and at the same time have a helper with a pair of vise grips or pipe wrench on the
extension to get more torque? Can you squirt any penetrent on the bolt?

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #2 – May 12, 2018, 07:18:34 pm

Barely enough room for me to fit in the area. I will try to add a pipe wrench. Hadn't thought of that one. I have shot PB Blaster up in the area. Can't see how successful it was though.

Thanks John and keep em coming.

Larry

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #3 – May 12, 2018, 07:31:07 pm

Used breaker bar and 5 lb hammer to break bolt loose, but had to take fuel filter and bracket loose.

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #4 – May 12, 2018, 07:37:11 pm

I use an extension long enough to clear the starter and a 1/2 drive air impact. It seems it doesn't matter what big diesel engine the bolt is always the 12 pt. and behind the starter.

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #5 – May 12, 2018, 09:29:35 pm

I replaced the starter on my ISM last week.
For the top bolt used an 8" extension and a 15" ratchet with a 12pt 5/8" socket-all 1/2" drive.
Try and use the shortest extension that just clears the starter body--a longer one looses some torque.

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #6 – May 12, 2018, 10:04:56 pm

Short socket and a wobble extension are what I use. A lot of Cummins (can't remember if ism) have an aluminum spacer between the starter and the bellhousing to really help things seize up. Can you get some torches to heat the bell housing where the bolt is? Can you get a helper to strike that part of the housing with a hammer and punch while you are applying pressure?

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #7 – May 12, 2018, 11:31:51 pm

Question: Isn't a 6 point socket less likely to slip than a 12 point socket? Especially with a angle extension or a impact?

Six-point sockets have thicker walls, so they're less likely to flex. A six-point socket is designed to contact the head of a fastener well away from the corners so contact is made on the thickest part of the socket and the flattest part of the fastener. This dramatically reduces the likelihood of slippage and rounding over the corners.

If you accidentally round off the bolt head with 12 point socket in a already hard to access location it's going to get ugly. If there is any way to get a 6 point socket on the bolt I would do it. Just an opinion.

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #8 – May 12, 2018, 11:57:53 pm

It's a 12 point bolt.

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #9 – May 13, 2018, 12:51:19 am

Quote from: craneman – May 12, 2018, 11:57:53 pm

It's a 12 point bolt.

Got it. That explains it.

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #10 – May 13, 2018, 08:37:48 am

Toby,
No aluminum spacer, thankfully. The bottom 2 bolts were to close to the housing to fit a socket and breaker bar. Got a socket and wobble on it, but the angle was too steep to get enough torque on the bolt. It would have been easier if I could have raised the coach, but right now, it is at travel height. The top bolt has a straight shot between the starter case and the solenoid so a normal 12 pt socket will fit on. With the length of extension necessary to get beyond the starter and around various hoses, I loose a substantial amount of torque as well as the cordless impact being to light duty to break the bolt loose. I hope to get the compressor and air impact down there this afternoon to get it done.

Thanks,
Larry

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #11 – May 13, 2018, 11:18:17 am

Larry, a little tip. Get you a bolt the same size as the starter bolt and cut it off long enough so you can use it as a stud. Screw it in one of the holes that is easy to get at be sure it screws in easy. That way it will keep the starter from getting out of control on you, easier to install the new one as well.

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #12 – May 13, 2018, 06:51:19 pm

Thanks Bruce, I should be able to get something at work tomorrow.

FYI, tried air impact, didn't budge. I am going to get shorter extensions and a 2' cheater pipe for the breaker bar tomorrow. I can shorten my 18" extension by 6" and should be able to put the breaker bar down through the piping. Hopefully it will be enough. Keeping fingers crossed. Next alternative is either a torque multiplier or mobile mechanic with needed tools.

Larry

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #13 – May 14, 2018, 08:52:23 am

Another idea,unless you have a hi-end impact can you borrow one?Try putting a few drops of oil in with the air,gives it a little more
power.All a "mechanic"is going to have is better tools,you might as well buy the tools.When you get it loose install with anti-seize.

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #14 – May 14, 2018, 02:26:49 pm

Be sure you are using a high quality extension. A cheap extension will act like a spring between the breaker bar or impact wrench and the bolt absorbing some of the torque you apply. Big difference between cheap and high quality tools.

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #15 – May 14, 2018, 02:41:53 pm

I'm with John. Squirt some 10/40w in the end of the impact then attach the air hose.

see ya
ken

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #16 – May 14, 2018, 07:10:34 pm

John44,
I was talking to the mechanics at work, one offered to loan me his good impact. 1000 ft/pds. The probem is my compressor couldn't ever supply enough air. He suggested that I borrow one of the company field service trucks. They are complete with gasoline air compressor, welder, torches etc. If I can't get it broken loose by this weekend, that may be an option.

John Duld,
I am sure that is part of my problem with the long extension. I am going to borrow a 3/4" breaker bar and extension from work and then adapt down to the 1/2" drive socket.

Ken,
I agree with the oil in the line. I have air impact oil instead of WD-40.

Won't be able to get there tonight, severe storms already springing up.

Thanks again everyone, keep the suggestions flowing.

Larry

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #17 – May 18, 2018, 07:37:12 pm

Finally got to work on the coach. Took off 1/2 day of work to do it, well worth it. I managed to finally get the top bolt broken loose with 1/2" drive breaker, shorter extension and cheater on the breaker bar. Old starter out, new one in. The new style of starter is noticeably smaller and better designed to work on the starter. You can actually use a socket and ratchet on the bottom bolts, unlike the old starter. Once hooked up, I crossed my fingers and held my breath while turning the key. There is no sweeter sound than hearing 400 horses of diesel power under your bed

Tomorrow, assuming the coach will start, I am taking it to have the new tires and centramatic balancers put on and get an oil change while there. Hope springs eternal.

Larry

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #18 – May 20, 2018, 06:19:34 pm

Just and update, The coach started like new. Drove the 50 miles to get the tires without incident. Sure is nice to be behind the wheel again. That hitch itch is starting to get bad.

Larry

Re: Changing starter on M11 engine

Reply #19 – May 20, 2018, 10:50:06 pm

Larry,
how much do the centramatics cost to have installed??

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