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Topic: Windshield Gasket (Read 838 times) previous topic - next topic

Windshield Gasket

I'm preparing to have the passenger windshield replaced and am trying not to freak out after reading some posts about failing bulkheads causing glass to separate or crack. The windshield was broken when we bought the rig, and I'm noticing now that the crack pattern is not what I'm accustomed to seeing with projectile type damage (I hope the picture is clear enough to see). I can't see any indication of either water damage inside, or strange seating of any other front windows (front or sides). All looks as it should be, aside from being broken.

I found the windshield in stock at RV Glass in Oregon, and am now looking for a local installer (Northern Utah) to have it drop-shipped. I guess I'll just take a chance and see what happens with the new windshield, hoping that the crack pattern is not a result of some deeper problem. As part of this project, I'm thinking about changing the windshield gasket at the same time, both because I think it's a good idea to change out old rubber when you have the chance, but also because it would be an opportunity to take a closer look underneath to inspect the soundness of the bulkhead. Again, a visual inspection hasn't revealed any obvious problems. I can't see any signs of current (or previous) water infiltration, no separation between gasket and glass or frame, nothing that would make me worry other than the strange crack pattern.

It appears the windshield gasket is part of a huge single gasket complex for the entire front end, enclosing both windshields and side windows. Does anybody have any experience with this? Will I indeed have to have all four windows removed? I had called Foretravel Parts (is that the same as saying FOT? What does MOT stand for?) and they have the gasket (recommending that I also get 40' of adhesive strip), but I didn't think to ask. I thought I'd run it through the forum before moving forward. Other than the additional cost of labor, I can't argue with the value in new rubber all around.
1991 Grand Villa 36' of Freedom
Detroit 8.2 turbo, Allison 4 speed
Model G91382636SBIORED8.2
Oshkosh Chassis VC20RD2

Re: Windshield Gasket

Reply #1 –
Sorry to see your windshield cracks. Could front cap be a problem?  Maybe a trip to Nacogdoches would be a good idea to visit Xtreme Graphics so Rance could make a permanent repair for all things that break glass. Likely no one else is capable of correctly diagnosing this type of maybe-common problem.

Gasket changes can be problematic and removing a sound glass just to change its gasket is likely not a great idea. True the fiberglass around the windshield could have a sharp edge causing issues.

Gasket has a long narrow center rubber locking strip that runs all around the glass perimeter to force the gasket against the fiberglass and glass edges.

Buying your own glass and finding an installer puts you at risk for the cost of the glass if it breaks while being installed.

FOT is "Foretravel of Texas" and is an abbreviation for everything at Foretravel factory location, including parts and service, etc.

MOT is "Motorhomes of Texas" a favorite service and used coach seller that you may want to be familiar with. Located almost across the road from the Foretravel factory, it is owned by the former #1 Foretravel new coach salesman and for many years is the go-to place for great service.  MOT tries to be transparent and will allow you to get down and dirty with your tech working on your coach.

Xtreme Graphics is a well experienced and respected Foretravel (and other brands) repair, upgrade and paint shop. Rance is their expert tech who knows everything Foretravel.  Xtreme is located a few miles from Foretravel factory.

Re: Windshield Gasket

Reply #2 –
Xtreme no longer does windshield replacement. I was there this morning.  Rance can fix any fibergalss issues.  MOT just did our windshields and did a great job.  There were no fiberglass issues, just rocks. .  There is a good glass shop in Lufkin just south of NAC.  I have no idea what FOT does.  Call.
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: Windshield Gasket

Reply #3 –
The windshields on Grand Villas are often problematic. In my experience it's usually the twisting of the body that causes them to crack. Before replacing them I recommend that you check for delamination on the sides which is a separation of the fiberglass skin from the plywood underneath. This issue can cause the windshields to crack.

SIDES: To check the sides, just give the area below the driver and pax side windows a knuckle rap. It should sound solid and it shouldn't flex. If it sounds hollow or flexes then it has delaminated. If that is the case Foretravel will remove the entire windshield system including the side windows and glue it all tight. I'll attach a couple of photos to show you the process. If you're interested I can advise what the cost was a few years back.

FRONT: You already have the chrome pull handles up front which Foretravel always adds to help with the windshield issue. Also, the wood under the dash often rots away and contributes to the windshield problem. I haven't dealt with that but there are some excellent threads that can show you how you can do this fix yourself at little cost.

GASKET: Many believe you are better off using your existing gasket if it is in good shape.

BODY: Another thing Foretravel does to address this issue is check the torque of all the big body bolts that run along both sides. `

Before having a regular shop do your installation I would make sure they know what they are getting into as these babies are a little different than a regular bus.

The third photo is taken laying on the ground looking up at the driver's side. That's glue running down the inside after the fix.

Don't agonize over this as it's a common problem.
jor
93 225
95 300
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99 320

Re: Windshield Gasket

Reply #4 –
Thanks for the advice. I feel pretty confident that there isn't any delamination; both the knuckle rapping and quarter tapping tests didn't reveal any areas of concern, and in fact sound surprisingly solid. I'm wondering if the cracks are the result of a bird strike (since there doesn't seem to be an obvious point of impact) which then spread with time. The PO told me the cracks were there when he bought the rig a little over a year ago. The temperatures here can fluctuate pretty dramatically, which I suspect could exacerbate the problem.

Jor's picture of all the front windows out is both terrifying and appealing. I would really love to have the time and resources to take them all out, inspect the fiberglass and front end, then replace with new glass. Alas, that is not in the cards right now, so I think I'll take Barry's advice and find a source that will take care of the buying and replacing of just the windshield, not the gasket. I called the nationwide company MobileRVGlass for a quote. I'm having them take care of getting the glass and setting up the installation with a mobile RV window tech. The rep sounded pretty knowledgable with older RVs and their crazy giant one-piece gaskets, which hopefully translates into having a capable tech do the installation. I'm also hoping they will do the job in my driveway so I won't have to move it for a few days after installation (as recommended by gracerace in another post). I'll certainly make sure the locking strip is replaced, whether the glass company provides it or I buy directly from FOT. And I'll keep my fingers crossed that this goes smooth.

 
1991 Grand Villa 36' of Freedom
Detroit 8.2 turbo, Allison 4 speed
Model G91382636SBIORED8.2
Oshkosh Chassis VC20RD2

Re: Windshield Gasket

Reply #5 –
Yes, please tell me the cost...  need my windshields done properly.


Glenn & Lyla
1995 U300 40'
Motorcade 18287

Re: Windshield Gasket

Reply #6 –
I am not sure the locking strip cannot be reused, keeping all parts of the gasket the same and assuring the lock strip will go back in ok.

Re: Windshield Gasket

Reply #7 –
I just had both windshields replaced by an independent glass shop in Hot Springs.  They re-used the locking strip but recommended I have it replaced, since it came out in six pieces from prior glass replacements.  I had that done during my last visit to FT.
Regards,
Brett

'99 42' Foretravel Xtreme
'14 Brown Motorsports Stacker
'05 Chevy SSR
'02 BMW R1150R

Re: Windshield Gasket

Reply #8 –
Byron,

Windshield sealants have changed greatly in the last few years ( or is it decades?). When I started importing cars, the Germans used a tempered glass like the side windows are today. They were installed without glue and the idea was in case of an accident, the windshield would turn into tiny bits and any passengers would escape with only tiny cuts at the most. To import the vehicles, the windshields had to have a label indicating it met specs AS1 plus we had to glue them in place.

Now, windshields have become a structural member of the vehicle and provide roof crush strength in case of an accident. As damage occurred to the glass from rock chips, etc., the glass was replaced and glued into place. Because of liability, the glass shop kept the car for quite a few hours to make sure the glue dried and in case of an accident, it would not pop out. Later the time was reduced to 4 hours as the glue improved and today, the latest glue improvements mean only an hour wait in most cases.

Your glass shop will have you sign a work order and the time until the vehicle can be released will be on it. Specifications may be different on RVs compared to cars.

Pierce

Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Windshield Gasket

Reply #9 –
Quote
Yes, please tell me the cost...  need my windshields done properly.

Well, I found the Foretravel cost for windshield replacement but I can't find the bill for the delamination fix. I think it was around $1200 or so. Here's the windshield job. This was in 2013.

$700 each plus 7.5 hours installation (3.5 hours per side plus gasket)
$1400
$825
$128 (gasket)
$30
Total: $2383

This "where do I get my Grand Villa windshields and where do I get them changed" is a recurring question here on the forum. Lots of strongly held opinions on this. Here's mine. I think the Guardian glass can be bought anywhere and that a competent RV glass shop can handle the job. Here's my experience at Foretravel in 2013 and 2014.

1. New glass and gasket.
2. Next day in Foretravel lot noticed the glass was cloudy.
3. Following day, new glass and gasket. Looked good except for some sloppiness inside which I had them clean up.
4. Weeks later driver side leaking in the rain. I took a good look at the installation. The glass was never actually behind the gasket in an about an 8" section. The installers simply gooped it up with black caulk.
5. Foretravel agreed to do it again. Back to Foretravel.
6. Foretravel advises me of the delamination. Said that was likely the problem.
7. Delamination fixed, new glass and new gasket.
8. Back at home leveled the coach in my driveway which was just slightly slanted.
9. Came out to the coach in the morning and the driver windshield was sticking out about an inch from the body!
10. Took it out of level and the windshield came close to settling into the gasket properly.
10. Foretravel had wiped their hands of the issue but did agree to pay half to have the driver windshield reset (in Oregon).
11.  It never was just right and would pull away from the gasket in real twisty conditions. Didn't leak though.

I still love those Grand Villas but the windshields on many will never be just right. Here are a few photos.
jor

93 225
95 300
97 270
99 320

Re: Windshield Gasket

Reply #10 –
Yikes! That has "achilles' heel" written all over it! I've got some rock dings and lite fogging  at the lower fronts and was thinking of replacing the windows but now, I think I'll just have the dings sealed, since I have no leaks or glass movement (knock knock). :facepalm:
1993 U-240 "La Villa Grande"..CAT 3116 w/ Pacbrake PRXB...Allison 3060 6-speed..
Previous: 1983 Airstream 310 turbo diesel, 1979 Airstream 280 turbo diesel
                                      Build # 4297
                                      PNW natives
                      Home base:  'Cactus Hug' (Ajo, Arizona)
                        DW Judy & Chet the wonder dog
                        Full-Timers 'Sailing the asphalt sea'

Re: Windshield Gasket

Reply #11 –
Jor,

Your glass is moving a lot. On ours, a small gap opens low on the outside of the driver's side where air/water could get in but moving the glass seems to bring it back to normal in a couple of minutes. Think the movement is limited to about a quarter inch. Seems to move more in warm weather. No overhang in the back but GVs front cap extends 9 feet past the joint with no structure supporting it. No wonder it flexes. I hate going out to where the spotlight is mounted. Really flexes and creaks. Almost feels as if I'm going to fall through.

Betting the tall coaches more more than Mike's U240.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Windshield Gasket

Reply #12 –
Quote
Your glass is moving a lot.

Actually, it doesn't (didn't). It brought itself back into place and from then on was not a problem. It would move but not drastically. No leaks and no air passage.

Pierce, I remember you saying in another thread that your front cap flexed a lot. My 300 did not do that. It was pretty solid. Interesting the differences among what are essentially the same coaches.

Regarding the windshield issue in general, I believe it is more of a problem with the 40 footers. They just flex more. After the windshield saga I was always careful to not get twisted badly driving nor leveling.
jor

93 225
95 300
97 270
99 320

Re: Windshield Gasket

Reply #13 –
Well, I've started the process with Mobile RV Glass, a nationwide RV and Bus windshield replacement company. They talked the talk about older rigs having twist and out-of-square problems, let's see if they walk the walk. They want me to bring it in rather than have a mobile tech come out in order to have access to all the tools at their disposal. I'll have to leave it there a few days--as Pierce recommended--to give the sealant time to set. It's certainly going to cost more than if I bought the windshield myself and had drop-shipped to a local installer of auto glass, but they also guarantee the work if the windshield cracks during installation. Everybody loves a guarantee I guess.

The total cost for one windshield, no gasket, new locking strip (if needed), whatever sealants are needed and labor will be $1400. And aside from the 2 hour trip home, and the 2 mile trip to the local mechanic for a safety inspection (and new front brakes), we have yet to use our brand new (to us) paradise on wheels. Here's to hoping this is the last repair needed to at least take it out for a weekend!
1991 Grand Villa 36' of Freedom
Detroit 8.2 turbo, Allison 4 speed
Model G91382636SBIORED8.2
Oshkosh Chassis VC20RD2
 

Re: Windshield Gasket

Reply #14 –
I'm sure it will turn out well, Byron. The price looks OK compared to what I paid six years ago. If you get a chance, be sure to post some photos. The more the merrier. That sure is a cute dog!
jor
93 225
95 300
97 270
99 320