EMS usage

Topic: EMS usage (Read 1039 times) previous topic - next topic

EMS usage

February 26, 2019, 04:40:45 pm

We had our friend bring down a Progressive Industries 50 amp EMS when he visited us in Mazatlan. We were concerned about what we had heard regarding the various electrical services you encounter, especially in this country. While in Mazatlan, my display was just under 120 V. We arrived at a campground near San Blas, yesterday. After I plugged in, I tried to run our ac unit, to cool down the coach. We never needed ac in Mazatlan, but had 50 A there. We have 30 A here, so I had to use adapters. I got NO electricity into the coach. After a little frantic activity, I pulled out the paperwork, and since each leg was reading 133 ish numbers, the EMS was doing it's job and not allowing current into the coach. What I realized was that I had purchased an expensive surge protector. The display told me the voltage was " too high " and that I should notify the RV park manager.....yeah right. That will do a lot of good. Anyway, a full timer here says he installed a voltage regulator on his trailer, and all is well. I had read, on this forum, about getting and installing an EMS, and did so. How come no one discussed what they do when voltage is too high/ low?? What should I do?? I can't run the generator, we are near other RVers. Can someone enlighten me. Electricity is NOT my strong point. Thanks.

Re: EMS usage

Reply #1 – February 26, 2019, 04:46:35 pm

In many Mexican CG's, wire size is SMALL. What that means is that on 15 and 30 amp service, if voltage is too high, try adding a load such as block heater, etc. Many times, that will bring down voltage to safe levels. Been there, done that, got the T shirt.......

Yes, you may have to bypass your EMS and do it the old fashion way.

Re: EMS usage

Reply #2 – February 26, 2019, 05:30:57 pm

Not knowing what model your Progressive is, of EMS you have, Brett might have the right idea. We have a Rv Surge Protection | United States | Progressive Industries, Inc. Our's is a pedestal mount unit that will measure both 50 and 30 amps They also make a 30 amp adapter that is much stronger than the old 'dog bone'.

Re: EMS usage

Reply #3 – February 26, 2019, 05:55:30 pm

Mike, if you reread my post.....I DID say I had the same brand EMS. It does not regulate voltage. It just gives errors, and will shut the flow down if something isn't " right ".

Re: EMS usage

Reply #4 – February 26, 2019, 06:32:09 pm

Quote from: GleamB – February 26, 2019, 05:55:30 pm

Mike, if you reread my post.....I DID say I had the same brand EMS. It does not regulate voltage. It just gives errors, and will shut the flow down if something isn't " right ".

You MAY NOT have a EMS that looks at both 50 and 30 amps, that was my point. Give them a shout, they are good , smart people!

Re: EMS usage

Reply #5 – February 26, 2019, 07:07:09 pm

Quote from: GleamB – February 26, 2019, 05:55:30 pm

It does not regulate voltage. It just gives errors, and will shut the flow down if something isn't " right ".

Glenn,

Your posts make it sound like you are somewhat disappointed in the performance of the EMS PT50, or that you expected it to do more than just "shut down the flow if something isn't right". It seems you thought you were buying a voltage regulator, and instead what you actually got was a "expensive surge protector". To be fair, the EMS product is somewhat more than just a surge protector. It does exactly what it is designed to do. It protects the coach...and does that very well. Of course, it does nothing to enable you utilize a high (or low) shore voltage supply, because that is not its job. As your full timer neighbor suggests, for that you will need a different product - one that is designed to provide that function.

Re: EMS usage

Reply #6 – February 26, 2019, 08:12:05 pm

I went into his trailer to see his voltage regulator. It is an ECOWISE EW30/1, which he says they sell here at Home Depot for about $250 USD??. I had seen something like this in Mazatlan. Problem is, I cannot attach the Progressive Industries unit at the pedestal, and THEN have it go into the regulator, because, as in this situation, if it reads 133 V it will " shut down" and not allow the juice to flow. He uses a different brand surge protector at the pedestal, and then it goes into the RV. His will not shut the power off. I may have a brand almost new Progressive Industries for sale when I get back to the states. I need someone to talk me through this. Mexico and their electrical issues will probably be in my future, so I need some thing to help correct fluctuating voltage.

Re: EMS usage

Reply #7 – February 26, 2019, 08:38:02 pm

Quote from: GleamB – February 26, 2019, 08:12:05 pm

I went into his trailer to see his voltage regulator. It is an ECOWISE EW30/1, which he says they sell here at Home Depot for about $250 USD??. I had seen something like this in Mazatlan. Problem is, I cannot attach the Progressive Industries unit at the pedestal, and THEN have it go into the regulator, because, as in this situation, if it reads 133 V it will " shut down" and not allow the juice to flow. He uses a different brand surge protector at the pedestal, and then it goes into the RV. His will not shut the power off. I may have a brand almost new Progressive Industries for sale when I get back to the states. I need someone to talk me through this. Mexico and their electrical issues will probably be in my future, so I need some thing to help correct fluctuating voltage.

Can you go through the regulator then the Progressive?

Re: EMS usage

Reply #8 – February 26, 2019, 09:38:54 pm

That is the point of my post. I don't "see" how that would be set up. My coach has a power reel for the electric power cord. How would you set this up?

Re: EMS usage

Reply #9 – February 26, 2019, 09:50:35 pm

Being in MX requires creativity...

Low, high, changing voltages, water quality and pressure issues, all things that can be worked with.

Buy male & female pigtails, wire them to regulator to make it portable.

Run a long extension cable from campground pedestal, with female end in bay so everything is secure & dry.

Plug regulator (now located in locked bay) into extension cord, plug EMS (also located in bay) into regulator, plug motorhome shore cable into EMS.

We do the above when we use our Autoformer to increase campground voltage, keeping our expensive Autoformer from walking away and out of weather and eyes.

Keep EMS, for no other reason than it is required in every USA campground to be protected.

Meanwhile, run electric heaters, hot water heaters, engine heaters to hopefully cause voltage drops from high demands.

Re: EMS usage

Reply #10 – February 26, 2019, 10:01:35 pm

BTW, we have always carried a couple of spare long 50-amp extensions so we can be sure to reach any outlets no matter where they are positioned.

'Spare' extension-stuff: electrical, water & sewer are the normal stuff for RVers. And would even allow a portable EMS to be weather & theft protected. Just keep the electric cord mostly on the reel just so it reaches where ever the other stuff is located.

We have even run an extension from pedestal into engine compartment, and located the other stuff in the engine compartment, with shore cable plugged into devices now located in the engine compartment.

Re: EMS usage

Reply #11 – February 26, 2019, 11:04:34 pm

I knew you were out there, Barry. Thanks. THAT is the logic I was searching for. Since there is hardly any 50 service in Mexico, and 30 amp seems the high side, would I be ok using 10 ga wire to make up the needed extensions?? Would 12 ga work? I like the idea of running the units in the engine compartment. Even though I now use a bicycle lock to use on the pedestal, it doesn't give me a " warm fuzzy" thinking of having that temp someone who might think they need it more than I do......ya know what I mean?? Are the Ecowise any good, or should I get the regulator you have? What am I looking for in technical terms, and how much should I allow for this new investment. And thank you Jack.....I'll keep the PI unit. I have heard good things about it, but there was some rumbling about new owners not honoring the warranty.....never a good thing to hear. Hope they worked that out.

Re: EMS usage

Reply #12 – February 26, 2019, 11:14:50 pm

Hello GleamB, As far as Progressive Dynamics warranty, you must keep your receipt. I do the same as Barry and Cindy with an original Hugh's Autoformer to boost low voltage, portable in my wet bay. The pedestal Progressive Dynamics pigtail that I have, I bought purposely because it protects not against low voltage, so it let's the Autoformer do it's work. I always check the pedestal with the Progressive Dynamics pigtail before connecting the rv.

Progressive Industries HW50C Hardwired EMS Surge & Electrical Protection- 50 Amps

Amazon.com: Progressive Industries HW50C Hardwired EMS Surge & Electrical...

From a rv tech I trust: "Well if you bought the hard wire with remote, Progressive Industries HW50C Hardwired EMS Surge & Electrical Protection- 50 Amps, their is a switch on it to bypass low and high voltage protection without disabling surge protection. When you know the issue, you make the decision to bypass if you want. Knowing what things not to run. Like if voltage is below 102vac. You can bypass, but dont run AC or microwave. That is the one I recommend, and the only one." "Also the Progressive wont work with the cheaper Generac inverter generators." "Progressive does offer an aftermarket switch you can install on some ot their protectors to bypass voltage protection" . I now will look into more the hardwired version vs the portable pedestal unit I'm using now.

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: EMS usage

Reply #13 – February 26, 2019, 11:37:20 pm

I just read a lot of reviews of the $600 ( ouch ) Hugh's Autoformer, and it looks like I will be getting one. The issue that is NOT addressed is when there is HIGH voltage, as I have encountered yesterday. It may be a rare situation, but the Autoformer seems to kick up LOW voltage in RV parks, specially in the summer when everyone is using their ac's and seven tv sets. What do we do when the power is HIGH? What else will I need to do to protect the electrical system?? BTW....we currently have 360 w of solar on the roof. If I upgrade the solar to, say, 1000 w, that won't power an AC unit, will it?? Am I barking up the wrong tree??

Re: EMS usage

Reply #14 – February 26, 2019, 11:40:05 pm

Take the DW hair dryer on high and or curling iron out and plug into the 15a pedestal connection may get enough voltage droop for the EMS to work long enough to get the a/c started and running and then add other loads high enough to keep things running, or move to the end of the park furthest from the electrical source. High voltage may be something you rarely encounter.

Re: EMS usage

Reply #15 – February 27, 2019, 12:16:30 am

Your going to need a really big inverter, preferably hybrid to run the roof a/c, a large battery bank, and a boatload of solar panels. Simple truth is solar at best is only a part time sunny day worker, who takes alot of smoke breaks during the day. I have got 1 new roof a/c unit that only burns about 1250 watts at high outside air temps, most will burn well over 1500-1800 watts each. The roof a/c units are the tail that wags the coach energy dog, as all are PIG energy hogs from the 70's that have never been updated. 900 watt unit is doable.

Re: EMS usage

Reply #16 – February 27, 2019, 01:08:58 am

Transformers to correct low and high voltage are commonly used by utility companies or commercial customers and probably some homes. They are call Buck / Boost transformers. Google has a lot to say when asked about buck boost.

High voltage may be caused by transformer with an imbalance of loads, or a problematic neutral on a 240 volt transformer. Could other outlets in the same park have lower voltage? Would just an RV move solve your high voltage problem?

Don't plan on inverter for roof air. Solar is nice, but not needed if there is shore power.

#10 extension may be ok, but with a long length, if voltage drop enters the situation, #8 or #6 would be better, but would not recommend #12. Finding a bargain #6 4-wire cable for 50-amp will serve you sometime in a 50-amp park even if in USA.

No need for Autoformer in your situation, but ours has allowed us to run roof air in hot weather when RV pedestal was below 110 volts. Only used ours several times, but each time it was invaluable and worth storing. We never use our Autoformer except when required. We do not leave it plugged in if not needed as we don't want to 'wear' it out. Autoformer is VERY heavy (and very expensive).

I think it is an excellent idea to run heating devices for EMS to close, to temp lower voltage, to get roof air running, which will likely keep voltage in range. cam

I have no experience with too high voltage controllers, also wonder if it is only temporarily high because there are not a lot of campers. We have seen transformers set at high end just to prevent going too low when the demand is high. So, it may only be transiently high. Run roof air and keep an eye on voltage readings.

Progressive Industries EMS is very good unit and as long as you have THE ORIGINAL RECEIPT for the purchase, the new owners are honoring. Bad press came because the original owners did not require receipt for lifetime warranty repairs.

Re: EMS usage

Reply #17 – February 27, 2019, 10:57:46 am

Quote from: Old phart phred – February 26, 2019, 11:40:05 pm

Take the DW hair dryer on high and or curling iron out and plug into the 15a pedestal connection may get enough voltage droop for the EMS to work long enough to get the a/c started and running and then add other loads high enough to keep things running, or move to the end of the park furthest from the electrical source. High voltage may be something you rarely encounter.

We've hit high voltage a lot, and cranked up the convection oven first, then hit the air. Another thing I've done is walk to other sites with the EMS and see if I get the same readings. I know now, but the first few times I used the EMS, I'd forgotten it has a delay while it does it's tests!

Re: EMS usage

Reply #18 – February 27, 2019, 11:44:13 am

Relating to the mentioned Generac generator issue, I think most inverter generators do not bond ground to neutral triggering an EMS fault. The solutions is simple by just making a dummy 120-volt male plug with ground wired to neutral. A lot writing on the internet on this situation. Someone even sells the dummy plug.

Generator Ground-Neutral Bonding | No~Shock~Zone

Re: EMS usage

Reply #19 – February 28, 2019, 08:07:30 am

Sola basic isb 4000. Common in Mexico, cost $250 to $300. Corrects voltage between 85 volts and 147 volts. I connect it before the Progressive ems. Works well.

Re: EMS usage

Reply #20 – February 28, 2019, 10:13:19 am

Mike,

Thanks for the info on the ISB 4000. Never heard of this interesting device, but then we have never been south of the border (or "on the other side of the wall" in today's political parlance). Seeking enlightenment, I found a nice discussion on another forum:

https://forums.motorhome.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/28736680/print/true.cfm

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