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Topic: Suggestions on battery drain solutions (Read 817 times) previous topic - next topic

Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Coach is in covered storage with no electric

I have installed 200w of solar on roof of storage building and wired to house batteries.  Negative to battery #1 positive to battery #3.

I have a trikLstart trickle charger wired to the isolator to charge the start batteries

Salesman switch is off

Generator has run for about 6 hrs this week to keep batteries charge.

Long term solution is to find the drain on the battery and resolve the issue.

Short term solution I'm thinking is to install a battery disconnect between the inverter and the house batteries.  My thinking is this will allow the solar and the trikLstart to keep both sets of batteries charged.  Is this correct thinking??  Any upgrade or better solution to this will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your thoughts in advance.

2000 GV320 4010 build #5712  2019-?
1999 Bounder 2000-2008
Bardstown, KY
🥃The Bourbon Capital of the World🥃

Re: Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Reply #1 –
Tommy, you can't turn your inverter off?  I know we have phantom draws on these coach's and as far as I know, the only way to remove them all is to disconnect the batteries.
Joe & Dottie Allen
Sold!  December 2023.      2000 U320; build # 5645
Our coach " Maxine"
Motorcade #  15922;  Escapee 150950; FMCA F330833; Boondockers Welcome;  Harvest Hosts;  Thousand Trails
'98 U320 from 2000-'06
USAF '62-'66

"Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for." ―Epicurus

Re: Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Reply #2 –
200 watts of solar might put out 10 amps at best - probably more like 5 amps on average.  IF you start with fully charged batteries, and IF there is no big phantom drain on batteries, then the panels might be sufficient to keep all of the batteries topped off.

If you don't have a residential fridge, then you don't need the inverter on.  Like Joe says, turn it off.

A manual disconnect switch between batteries and inverter is a good thing to have.  Allows instant isolation of inverter for maintenance and/or for trouble shooting.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Reply #3 –
If your inverter controls don't allow you to turn off the inverter, then your plan might work. My SW 3012 with the inverter on and at idle draws 3 amps or around 60 watts. With the inverter function turned off it draws .25 amps or around 3 watts.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Reply #4 –
I will turn off the inverter, didn't know I could. Thanks.

Can you turn off inverter at the panel inside or do I have to crawl into the bay to turn it off?

With inverter turned off will the trikLstart still charge the start batteries?

I was hoping 200w of solar would keep the batteries trickle charged when in storage?

2000 GV320 4010 build #5712  2019-?
1999 Bounder 2000-2008
Bardstown, KY
🥃The Bourbon Capital of the World🥃

Re: Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Tommy D –
I will turn off the inverter, didn't know I could. Thanks.

Can you turn off inverter at the panel inside or do I have to crawl into the bay to turn it off?

With inverter turned off will the trikLstart still charge the start batteries?

I was hoping 200w of solar would keep the batteries trickle charged when in storage?
On mine it is the control panel mounted in the coach. Only need to push one button to shut the inverter off or back on.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Tommy D –
1.  With inverter turned off will the trikLstart still charge the start batteries?

2.  I was hoping 200w of solar would keep the batteries trickle charged when in storage?
1.  If your Trik-L-Start is correctly connected to both BATTERY posts on the isolator, then "Yes" it will steal some of the charging current going to the house batteries and send it to the start batteries.

2.  Maybe it will - maybe it won't.  Reduce your phantom loads to a bare minimum, and see how it goes.

If your generator has been running because the Auto Start control is kicking it on, check what "start" voltage is set in the Auto Start program.  It is possible the generator is coming on more often than necessary.

Somebody else will have to tell you how to check the program, cuz I don't have Auto Start.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Reply #7 –
Do you have a solar controller, if so, what is the bulk and float settings?  What are the settings for your inverter/charger?

For 10 years I dry camped with only 150 watts solar on both a 91 and 92 Signature. 200 watts should be more than enough to keep your batteries up, unless you have a bad positive or ground connection on your batteries,  charge controller,  or inverter/charger. I would start with monitoring the voltage of these three.  You can do this with a simple 12 volt meter. The inverter/charger and the solar controller actually charge your batteries,  not just monitor the voltage and rate of charge like the battery monitor..

A Victron BMV- 712 with temp sence is about $225 and $206 without temp sence. You can monitor from your phone and it will pair with Victron solar controller to moniter temperature and voltage.  The 712 by itself will only monitor temperature or voltage, not both unless you pair it with a Victron solar controller.  If you do not need temperature monitoring then you save about $20.

Temp sence is not as important on the 712 as its primary function is to monitor.  The primary function  of theinverter/charger and the solar controller is to charge you batteries, thus temp sence is mandatory.
97 U295 40, Build #5040, 6C8.3 325 HP
Oregon Continuous Traveler
Samsung Residential #RF20HFENBSR,
Xantrex SW2012, (3)AGM8D Hse, (2)AGM Grp24 Eng, Victron BMV-712, 1800w Solar 4 LG & 2 Sunpower
Extreme Full Body Pt w/hdlmps, new furn/floor, 4 down Lexus 2004 GX470 AWD curb weight 4,740 lbs
Prev: 1990 Barth, 10L 300 2 yrs; 91&92 Monaco Signature, 10 yrs, 10L C 300 &  6C8.3 300; 1997 ForeT 6C8.3 325 since May 2017.  Employed by Guaranty RV 14+ yrs.  Former VW New Car Dlr/Service Dlr, Sales Mgr, Rv Sales, and Service Adviser from 1968-2017
"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Bob Dylan

Re: Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Jack Lewis –
Do you have a solar controller, if so, what is the bulk and float settings?  What are the settings for your inverter/charger?

For 10 years I dry camped with only 150 watts solar on both a 91 and 92 Signature. 200 watts should be more than enough to keep your batteries up, unless you have a bad positive or ground connection on your batteries,  charge controller,  or inverter/charger. I would start with monitoring the voltage of these three.  You can do this with a simple 12 volt meter. The inverter/charger and the solar controller actually charge your batteries,  not just monitor the voltage and rate of charge like the battery monitor..

A Victron BMV- 712 with temp sence is about $225 and $206 without temp sence. You can monitor from your phone and it will pair with Victron solar controller to moniter temperature and voltage.  The 712 by itself will only monitor temperature or voltage, not both unless you pair it with a Victron solar controller.  If you do not need temperature monitoring then you save about $20.

Temp sence is not as important on the 712 as its primary function is to monitor.  The primary function  of theinverter/charger and the solar controller is to charge you batteries, thus temp sence is mandatory.

I have 3 new AGM 8d o'rielly batteries for house
Solar controller settings are 14.4 and 12.2V
The inverter charger is set to 100% on High AC Volt and Low AC Volt is set to 12.2

Turning off the inverter seems to have helped a lot.  When I checked last night the charge was at 13.3V and when I looked this morning the charge was 12.7V on the solar controller which is mounted right next to the battery bank.  Does that seem normal?  Thinking about turning off the breakers also??

Thanks again for all of your comments and help!

2000 GV320 4010 build #5712  2019-?
1999 Bounder 2000-2008
Bardstown, KY
🥃The Bourbon Capital of the World🥃

Re: Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Reply #9 –
It should go back up to float again today if you have sun.,
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Reply #10 –
My me-arc panel on my magnum setup has a adjust the search functions watts its looking for  and/or to turn off the search function.  Default was 5 watts.  So depending on your set parameters of how often the inverter was turning itself on to look for 5 watt loads it will consume power.

I removed the isolator and installed the industry standard now auto combiner instead.

I had two trickle chargers blow internally and still have a green light on its face.

It you exceed it's rated output my much they fail.

The combiners auto function makes running down a battery bank extremely unlikely.

My guru buddy normally does not add my upfront control box.

He adds the starter sense wire now and that way the house batteries are not auto connected when the starter relay is engaged.

Otherwise it covered up weak engine batteries.

I can manually connect or manually lock out the combiner from the front.

Switch is where the boost was.

My 270 watts solar works great to charge both banks.  Unless low sun angle in winter and dirty at the same time
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Reply #11 –
Since your rv is in covered storage, your solar is not charging except when in sunlight.  I would install a ground cutoff on both house and chassis batteries.  This is what I did.  I will also personnel message you to call me tomorrow after3pm Pacific time.

"While in storage, batteries should be boost charged every 90 days or when the open circuit
voltage (OCV) drops to 12.5 volts for a 12 volt battery (6.25 volts for a 6 volt battery and 2.08
volts for a 2V battery). This OCV corresponds to approximately 75% state of charge. Boost
charge batteries using a constant voltage charger set at 14.4 to 15.0 volts for a 12 volt battery."  from Lifeline for AGMs.
97 U295 40, Build #5040, 6C8.3 325 HP
Oregon Continuous Traveler
Samsung Residential #RF20HFENBSR,
Xantrex SW2012, (3)AGM8D Hse, (2)AGM Grp24 Eng, Victron BMV-712, 1800w Solar 4 LG & 2 Sunpower
Extreme Full Body Pt w/hdlmps, new furn/floor, 4 down Lexus 2004 GX470 AWD curb weight 4,740 lbs
Prev: 1990 Barth, 10L 300 2 yrs; 91&92 Monaco Signature, 10 yrs, 10L C 300 &  6C8.3 300; 1997 ForeT 6C8.3 325 since May 2017.  Employed by Guaranty RV 14+ yrs.  Former VW New Car Dlr/Service Dlr, Sales Mgr, Rv Sales, and Service Adviser from 1968-2017
"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Bob Dylan

Re: Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Jack Lewis –
Since your rv is in covered storage, your solar is not charging except when in sunlight.
Jack,

Tommy's solar panels are on the roof of his storage building.  See first post.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Reply #13 –
The Magnum inverter chargers can be added to with a fully adjustable auto gen start module.

Including operating hours and exercising of the gen.

Can be temp triggered if you add a 10 button Dometic control panel and change the roof airs circuit board.

Either hot or cold could trigger the auto gen start or battery SOC or any combo of the triggers.

Turns off the gen when the triggering conditions are addressed
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Reply #14 –
I have found that invertors draw about 3 or 4 amps whether they are on or off,
Best cure is disconnect the Invertor when not in use,
Cheers, Brian,
1989 Foretravel Grand Villa, 36 foot ORED, 300 HP Catapillar and Four Speed Allison Auto,
Right Hand drive, two Mid doors, Makes a good flow thru ventilation in hot weather,
Located in Melbourne, Australia,  The Land Down Under,
Honda Blackbird, 1100XX.    2002 Gemini 105 MC Catamaran,

Re: Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Reply #15 –
Many inveters have an ON-OFF switch.  Particularly true of inverter/chargers.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Reply #16 –
The magnum can have its "search for a load" five watt load parameter adjusted as needed and can be turned off.  I turned mine off. 
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Reply #17 –
Inverters have two different OFFs.
Turning off the inverter from the inverter control panel will turn off 120 VAC to your power panel but still leave the inverter connected to your batteries. The inverter will consume less wattage this way but not ZERO. Disconnect a battery cable will cause the other "OFF" condition where inverter will consume ZERO watts.

Inverter may also have a "Power Save" mode which will consume less watts than "Ready" mode, but may require waking up the inverter with a light load (light bulb) before it will work with a heavy load (microwave). This is how my "pure sign" Xantrex 1800 inverter works, so I do not use the "Power Save" mode.

The no load watts that an inverter consumes depends on the configuration or model. Inverter/chargers with a pass through capability consume more "no load" watts then an inverter without a charger or pass through capability.

My Xantrex 1800 "pure sign" consumes a 2/3 amp when in "Ready" mode (Xantrex says 0.8 amps), so It is only turned on when being used. Most inverter/chargers with pass through consume 2 or more amps when in "Ready" mode. I boon dock a lot so inverter no load watts is important to me.


Wyatt
96 U320 40 WTFE, build 4943
84 Toyota Supra towd
2015 Jeep Wrangler towd
Victoria, BC, Canada
 

Re: Suggestions on battery drain solutions

Reply #18 –
Tommy D:
I doubt that 200 watts of solar is sufficient to provide for your phantom load.
On a bright sunny day 200 watts will provide circa 50 amp hours which will be consumed by a 2 amp phantom load over a 24 hour period.
So, how many amps is your phantom load?
When I purchased my 1996 U320, the phantom load was 6.5 amps which was consuming the power produced by 600 watts of solar on the roof (on a sunny day).
I reduced that phantom load to half amp which could be satisfied by a 50 watt panel.
What did I eliminate?: A burglar alarm which did not work, a satellite receiver I could not use, new inverter replaced old inverter/charger with pass through, dash AM/FM and CB radios (installed switch on dash), propane safety valve and over the bed AM/FM radio (also switched).
Wyatt
96 U320 40 WTFE, build 4943
84 Toyota Supra towd
2015 Jeep Wrangler towd
Victoria, BC, Canada