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Topic: Ammonia smell in refrigerator  (Read 1880 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Ammonia smell in refrigerator

Reply #25 –
When we got rid of the old Dometic in our '02. I chose the French Door Samsung as the replacement. I found a nicely priced one in Lufkin and had it delivered to FOT until we could get there. David Flanagan was kind enough to store it for us.  It was a complete game-changer for us (I should say ME) and we were living in the coach full time. No more defrosting, shifting stuff to avoid warm spots and throwing away frozen lettuce. No more little internal fans. Lord lord lord ... I HATED that nasty Dometic fridge!!  We only boondocked for a week or 2 at a time, and when we were, the Samsung was kept nicely at temp by our 450 watts of solar and a boost from the generator when needed. We had already upgraded our inverter when we added the solar, so that was not an issue. If you do not want to go "whole hog" with a full sized fridge, you can always do a smaller residential one and perhaps add some storage space. Dave Katski and Nancy Elkins added a 10cu residential in their 36' and are very happy.  If you are not full time, a smaller fridge may be all you need!
Carol & Jeff Savournin
Usta have a '93 U225 36', Usta have a '95 U320 40', Usta have a '02 U320 40'
Usta have a 2006 Born Free, Usta have a 2011 Phoenix Cruiser
Usta have a 2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited 4dr
"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life."  Steve Jobs

Re: Ammonia smell in refrigerator

Reply #26 –
The refrig mentioned by Kathy G uses 587 watts per day at 24 volt so more amps at 12v.  Our Samsung 18 cu ft model uses about 1550 watts per day with almost 50% more capacity.  The JC refrigeration conversion kits (12v or 120v) for existing LP gas refrigerators use around 1400 watts per day based on actual measurements in use.  And they cost more than a residential refrigerator.  One of the early 120v conversions has already failed. No known cause.

The right choice for each of us whether it is a refrigerator, remodel, alternator, electrical equipment, batteries or anything else, is what fits your needs and expectations, use and pocketbook.  There are many options.  There are many opinions too. 

Edited ... 587 watts is the same at 12 or 24 volts.  I would like to see this or any other danfoss compressor  driven refrigerator actual power use measurements.  This seems low to me, only 24 watts per hour.  The 3.8 cu ft Dometic CR-1110 Danfoss compressor refrigerator specs say it uses 45 watts per hour or 1080 watts per day.  Something is fishy.
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: Ammonia smell in refrigerator

Reply #27 –
Roger
I'm not understanding why the power comsumption would be twice as much on a 12V unit compared to a 24V unit. Amperage would be twice but watts should be the same or close to the same.
Justin & Cathy Byrd
1995 U280 "Old Faithful"
36' Build #4673
C8.3 Cummins
Allison MD3060R 6 speed - retarder
Powertech 10KW  4cyl Kubota

Re: Ammonia smell in refrigerator

Reply #28 –
Quote from: FourTravelers –
Roger
I'm not understanding why the power comsumption would be twice as much on a 12V unit compared to a 24V unit. Amperage would be twice but watts should be the same or close to the same.

Correct. For the same amount of energy: Amps on 12 VDC= 2X that on 24 VDC. Watts the same.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Ammonia smell in refrigerator

Reply #29 –
Bob,

I think the reason some are using a smaller inverter to run their fridge, and possibly entertainment center, is to take advantage of the lower idle current a smaller inverter consumes vs. a large main inverter: Only run the main inverter when it's needed. A large inverter under a light load is relatively inefficient, mainly due to the idle current being a large percentage of the overall load. Keep in-mind that the advertised efficiency of any inverter is the peak efficiency, and only achieved at a certain load (85% +/- )? Below peak, idle current is the larger loss. Above peak, thermal losses come more into play. So, use an inverter sized to be near that sweet spot when the fridge is running... maybe a little below the sweet spot when also running the TV, ETC, so long as said small inverter can handle the fridge start current. Modern inverter fridge compressors have a pretty low start current.

Greg
Greg & Cathy
2000 U320 4010 DGFE Build #5650
Had: 1999 Tradewinds 7370

Re: Ammonia smell in refrigerator

Reply #30 –
Quote from: Caflashbob –
I cannot get my head around the idea of running a separate inverter for the refer saving much energy?

The previous owner of our U320 did a lot of boondocking in the West and installed 540 Watts of solar and a small (300 Watt I believe) inverter to power their TV and computer uses. They also installed a 2800 Watt Magnum inverter/charger with wired remote to handle typical inverter/charger functions. I haven't made detailed power measirements but to me it makes sense to use a small inverter if one is using small power-requirement devices and a large inverter if one is using large power-requirement devices.
David and Carolyn Osborn
1995 U320C SE 40' Build 4726 Feb 1995
FMCA 147762
Motorcade 17186

Re: Ammonia smell in refrigerator

Reply #31 –
The WHOLE equation should be based on both total capacity AND idle/stand-by power consumption.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Ammonia smell in refrigerator

Reply #32 –
Quote from: Carol Savournin –
When we got rid of the old Dometic in our '02. I chose the French Door Samsung as the replacement. It was a complete game-changer for us (I should say ME) and we were living in the coach full time. No more defrosting, shifting stuff to avoid warm spots and throwing away frozen lettuce. No more little internal fans.

If you are not full time, a smaller fridge may be all you need!

I am always reluctant to disagree with Carol, but this time I must: We are not full-timers but at certain times of the year we are very serious part-timers. After having our Samsung RF18 for about a year I wouldn't want to try to convice my wife that she didn't "need" it and could get by with a smaller fridge!!
David and Carolyn Osborn
1995 U320C SE 40' Build 4726 Feb 1995
FMCA 147762
Motorcade 17186

Re: Ammonia smell in refrigerator

Reply #34 –
Mike,
IF, repeat IF one mostly boondocks, Josh's point is valid (as is his math).

So, as has been mentioned many times, there is no BEST FOR EVERYONE refrigerator choice.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Ammonia smell in refrigerator

Reply #35 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
Mike,
IF, repeat IF one mostly boondocks, Josh's point is valid (as is his math).

So, as has been mentioned many times, there is no BEST FOR EVERYONE refrigerator choice.
Absolutely correct. Note that people who plan to boondock extensively with residential refrigerators typically add significant solar capacity as well as additional battery capacity. For us, and our types of usage, the benefits of the residential refrigerator outweigh any downsides.
David and Carolyn Osborn
1995 U320C SE 40' Build 4726 Feb 1995
FMCA 147762
Motorcade 17186

Re: Ammonia smell in refrigerator

Reply #36 –
In order to figure the power balance out you need to have a pretty good handle on how much power you use in a day and how that varies from season to season, how much power storage capacity (batteries) you have and how you are going to get that power.  There is no magic formula for this, each of us uses our coaches in our own way and while solutions are similar, details vary.

Good battery monitors will help you understand power use from the batteries.  With an LP refrigerator this is going to be somewhere in the 1500-2000 watts per day.  With a residential refrigerator this will be closer to 2800-3500 watts per day.  In the winter all of these numbers go up, you use more lighting and more heat.  In the summer maybe a bit lower.  There are many inexpensive devices out there to help measure power use both AC and DC.

You are going to get power from a landline, your generator or solar.  If you want AC then a landline or generator is pretty much required.  Solar will generate power that you can use or store.  1000 watts of solar will add about 2000-2500 watts per day on average over the year.  In the middle of the summer in good sun maybe twice that or more.  In the middle of the winter with low sun angles and more clouds maybe 1/2 of that or less.

Battery capacity changes with the age of your batteries and how well they have been maintained. If all of your power is coming from your batteries then 3000 watts used per day at 12.5 volts is 240 amp hours per day.  If you start at 100% state of charge and have 3 8Ds with at total capacity of 750 amp hrs then you will use about 1/3 of your capacity.  In the winter batteries are less efficient, you are using more power, it is dark for 14-16 hours, it is colder.  You can easily use up 50% of your battery capacity at which time you need to recharge.  Cycling your batteries to that state of charge (SOC) significantly reduces battery life.  At 25% discharge cycles you batteries will last twice as long or more.

So in the middle of winter say you use 3250 watts in a day or 260 amp hrs at 12.5 volts average.  If you want to not go below 25% SOC then you need closer to 1100 amp hr capacity assuming some efficiency loss.  To do that you would probably want to go to 4 8D batteries.  With Lithium batteries you could get by with 4 100 amp hr batteries.  These can discharge much more, will charge faster and 4 will weigh less than a single 8D battery.  There are 6 volt battery solutions for this as well that will fit in the space of 2 8Ds.

Even if you are careful with power use in the winter your 1000 watts of solar panels will be hard pressed to keep up at this power use level. A few days yes, most no.  In the summer you will do much better.  With lead based batteries you really want to recharge fully to 100% SOC every discharge cycle.  Not doing so slowly degrades their capacity.  Lithium batteries are not limited by this.  They are like a tank of water.  Add as much as you can, use it up.  Repeat. If you add less than you use eventually you run out.

If you are plugged in most of the time then this is pretty easy.  If you are an overnighter at a Walmart for example, and don't want to run your generator then all you need is sufficient battery capacity to get through the night.  If you want to spend time off the grid where generator use is OK then use your generator or use sufficient solar or both and have enough battery capacity.  If you want to be off the grid and use no generator or as little as possible then you need enough solar for an average day and battery capacity to get through the night.

It is a balancing act, different for each of us.  But one all of us can do in our own way.

Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: Ammonia smell in refrigerator

Reply #37 –
The essentials of life with a residential refrigerator can be stated rather simply:

If one plans to do extended dry camping then a residential refrigerator probably isn't a good idea; go with an absorption refrigerator. If one wants to enjoy the advantages of a residential refrigerator and still do dry camping then one should install as much solar capacity as one can fit on the roof and install at least three new 8 d batteries. Lithium batteries are an up-and-coming technology with potentially several advantages but the technology is not yet mature. One should install a good energy management battery monitor and make sure to never use more than 50% of the battery-bank capacity before recharging. It's even better for best battery life to not use more than 25% of the battery-bank capacity. Installing LED lighting and minimizing other battery drains is clearly an excellent idea. One way to do that is to have a dedicated small inverter for the refrigerator (and possibly a few other low-current devices such as cell phone chargers or other essential electronics) and reserve us of the large inverter for only those time one need to power a high-current device such as a microwave oven.
David and Carolyn Osborn
1995 U320C SE 40' Build 4726 Feb 1995
FMCA 147762
Motorcade 17186

Re: Ammonia smell in refrigerator

Reply #38 –
OK, let's get back on-topic-- enough of the "my inverter/charger is better than yours".

The discussion is about alternatives to replacing an absorption refrigerator with defective cooling unit.

Thanks.

Brett/moderator
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020
 

Re: Ammonia smell in refrigerator

Reply #39 –
[deleting the inverter hijack discussion momentarily]

OK.  My apologies to those who put thoughtful responses in to the intentional hijack that happens every time someone types the word "inverter".  Normally I would split discussion out, but since this is a "beating a dead horse" hijack that happens repeatedly and with increasing frequency, it has been deleted.

Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320