Batteries etc.

Topic: Batteries etc. (Read 1205 times) previous topic - next topic

Batteries etc.

August 07, 2019, 02:07:44 pm

Thanks in advance for any help and advice. I am new to Foretravel MH's and to this
board as well.
I just recently purchased a 92 silver u300 40' and I have a battery death.
It appears that one of the lead acid(there are 3 very large ones on drivers side
mid compartment) batteries was dry prior to my charging and it got fried.
Question 1: Is there a start battery separate from these 3 or is one of these dedicated
to start with the other's 'house' batteries? Each of the 3 are the size of 3 regular batteries
attached together. Where do I get a replacement and what type are they?
Should I go to a gel or other type?
Thanks

Re: Batteries etc. DD with Allison Tranny

Reply #1 – August 07, 2019, 03:39:02 pm

Quote from: Yurre – August 07, 2019, 02:07:44 pm

Thanks in advance for any help and advice. I am new to Foretravel MH's and to this
board as well.
I just recently purchased a 92 silver u300 40' and I have a battery death.
It appears that one of the lead acid(there are 3 very large ones on drivers side
mid compartment) batteries was dry prior to my charging and it got fried.
Question 1: Is there a start battery separate from these 3 or is one of these dedicated
to start with the other's 'house' batteries? Each of the 3 are the size of 3 regular batteries
attached together. Where do I get a replacement and what type are they?
Should I go to a gel or other type?
Thanks

1) Yes, you probably have at least 2 smaller automotive batteries in your engine bay that are there to start your engine.
2) The existing house batteries could be Gel, AGM or conventional flooded lead acid, probably size 8D depending what the originals were replaced with. Originals would have been Gel. Either will work. Lots of places to buy them.
3) Gel, AGM, conventional wet cell or Lithium are your most common options. Do some searches on the Forum and find more than you ever wanted to know. Get ready for heated debates about each.

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #2 – August 07, 2019, 04:37:30 pm

Bdale, where would the starter battery be found? I cannot see any battery
in the engine compartment.
Is it possible that one of the three 8d batteries is for starting?
YN

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #3 – August 07, 2019, 06:17:06 pm

Quote from: Yurre – August 07, 2019, 04:37:30 pm

Is it possible that one of the three 8d batteries is for starting?

Yes, it is possible. On these old coaches, almost anything is possible. Very few are ever left completely original by the many prior owners.

Have you looked in every storage bay under the coach? My '93 model coach has the batteries located in the two bays that are just behind the rear wheels, on both sides of the coach. The coach (house) batteries are on the driver side. The engine start batteries are on the passenger side. BUT, your '92 model may be arranged differently.

What is your immediate problem? Can you start the engine? If so, then it will be easy to determine if any of the 3 batteries that you have found is the start battery. Do you have a multimeter? Do you know how to use it?

Give us some more information about your exact symptoms and then we can help you.

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #4 – August 07, 2019, 07:00:39 pm

C & J, thanks for the reply.
I'm now pretty sure that the three 8d's are the only batteries.
And since it would not start without a charger connected to the 'dead'
one, maybe that battery is the starter? Or maybe it starts from all three
since they are all connected together?
Could be a different set up from oem. Only one owner prior to me however.

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #5 – August 07, 2019, 07:20:53 pm

Our 1993 U300 has three start/engine batteries just inside the engine compartment door if you look down and just in front of the back bumper. Yours may be in a rear compartment.

Do you have the side or rear radiator? Normally, the 1992's have a side radiator.

Don't waste your money on expensive batteries. Three good 34 series from Autozone or Reilly's will work fine. Our Duralast batteries lasted about ten years and worked well in the coldest weather. I went another step further this last year with the installation of three Duralast 31 series batteries for a total cost for all three of just about $300. The three 31 series batteries have a CCA of 2850 amps. I did ask for and got a 10% discount for buying three. You have to see how much work is involved installing the slightly larger batteries. Mine required quite a bit of work modifying the battery rack but in a compartment, it may be different.

The Detroit 6V-92TA requires three 34 or 31 series batteries or two 8D batteries. One 8D won't make it. I never use the boost solenoid. If you have to, something is wrong with the starting batteries, cables, connections, etc.

Pierce

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #6 – August 07, 2019, 07:42:26 pm

If I remember correctly the 92 had 3 8d batteries in the same compartment under a fiberglass cover. One is for the engine and the other 2 are for the house .

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #7 – August 07, 2019, 10:34:21 pm

Quote from: Yurre – August 07, 2019, 07:00:39 pm

I'm now pretty sure that the three 8d's are the only batteries.
And since it would not start without a charger connected to the 'dead'
one, maybe that battery is the starter? Or maybe it starts from all three
since they are all connected together?

OK, if you only have the three batteries, then do a simple test with a multimeter. Before you begin the test, check to make sure the switch on your instrument panel labeled BOOST is turned OFF, and leave the ignition switch OFF.

1. Check the voltage on each battery. 2 of the batteries may be connected and read the same, but that's OK for this test.

2. Turn on your headlights, and put them on high beam. If they won't come on, or are very dim, that's OK for this test.

3. Check the voltage again on each battery. Compare to your readings in Step #1.

Based on what you have already said, here is what I think you will find. The readings on two of the batteries will be the same both times. These will be the two batteries that are tied together. These are your coach (house) batteries.

The reading on the 3rd battery (the one you say is dead) may be the same or may be less than what you saw in Step #1. This will depend on how "dead" it really is. Any reading below 11.5 volts is a totally dead battery. This is your engine start battery.

BUT, say I am wrong, and in Step #3 you find the voltage is lower on two of the batteries, or even on all three batteries. In that case, the batteries that show reduced voltage are tied together and are being used to start the engine.

Once you determine for sure which battery (or batteries) is used for engine start, turn off your headlights. Test complete.

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #8 – August 07, 2019, 11:17:00 pm

While one 8D will start a Detroit in summer, it does not have enough CCAs for starting in the winter, especially since the Detroits don't have any starting aids like Cummins do.

When we repowered our fire trucks with Detroits, we had to tie both 8Ds together to get reliable starting. And that was at sea level in SoCal where it never gets cold. That's why Foretravel installed 3 start batteries in the U300 series. An 8.3 Cummins with the heated screen does not need as many CCAs as the 9 liter Detroit.

Pierce

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #9 – August 08, 2019, 06:00:07 am

Quote from: red tractor – August 07, 2019, 07:42:26 pm

If I remember correctly the 92 had 3 8d batteries in the same compartment under a fiberglass cover. One is for the engine and the other 2 are for the house .

Yes, that is the setup that I have. The middle battery appears to be the primary start battery.
It is the one that overheated and therefore done. Final question is do I need to replace
this one, or can I operate with two 8d's?
Thanks RT

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #10 – August 08, 2019, 06:03:35 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – August 07, 2019, 07:20:53 pm

Our 1993 U300 has three start/engine batteries just inside the engine compartment door if you look down and just in front of the back bumper. Yours may be in a rear compartment.

Do you have the side or rear radiator? Normally, the 1992's have a side radiator.

Don't waste your money on expensive batteries. Three good 34 series from Autozone or Reilly's will work fine. Our Duralast batteries lasted about ten years and worked well in the coldest weather. I went another step further this last year with the installation of three Duralast 31 series batteries for a total cost for all three of just about $300. The three 31 series batteries have a CCA of 2850 amps. I did ask for and got a 10% discount for buying three. You have to see how much work is involved installing the slightly larger batteries. Mine required quite a bit of work modifying the battery rack but in a compartment, it may be different.

The Detroit 6V-92TA requires three 34 or 31 series batteries or two 8D batteries. One 8D won't make it. I never use the boost solenoid. If you have to, something is wrong with the starting batteries, cables, connections, etc.

Pierce

Good info...it appears that the three 8d's are the original setup. They fit nicely into the
compartment. Do I need three, or can I get by with 2 of the 8d's? This would probably
require some re-wiring I assume.

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #11 – August 08, 2019, 06:04:43 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – August 07, 2019, 10:34:21 pm

OK, if you only have the three batteries, then do a simple test with a multimeter. Before you begin the test, check to make sure the switch on your instrument panel labeled BOOST is turned OFF, and leave the ignition switch OFF.

1. Check the voltage on each battery. 2 of the batteries may be connected and read the same, but that's OK for this test.

2. Turn on your headlights, and put them on high beam. If they won't come on, or are very dim, that's OK for this test.

3. Check the voltage again on each battery. Compare to your readings in Step #1.

Based on what you have already said, here is what I think you will find. The readings on two of the batteries will be the same both times. These will be the two batteries that are tied together. These are your coach (house) batteries.

The reading on the 3rd battery (the one you say is dead) may be the same or may be less than what you saw in Step #1. This will depend on how "dead" it really is. Any reading below 11.5 volts is a totally dead battery. This is your engine start battery.

BUT, say I am wrong, and in Step #3 you find the voltage is lower on two of the batteries, or even on all three batteries. In that case, the batteries that show reduced voltage are tied together and are being used to start the engine.

Once you determine for sure which battery (or batteries) is used for engine start, turn off your headlights. Test complete.

Thanks Guys, will check it out today..

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #12 – August 08, 2019, 10:18:59 am

If you

Quote from: Yurre – August 08, 2019, 06:03:35 am

Good info...it appears that the three 8d's are the original setup. They fit nicely into the
compartment. Do I need three, or can I get by with 2 of the 8d's? This would probably
require some re-wiring I assume.

If the 8Ds are used for both engine and house, then no, you can't get by with just two. I've been driving Detroit two cycles since 1967 so have a pretty good insight into what will work and what won't.

If you are new to your U300, you need to do a lot of reading from the forum archives on both the U300 and Foretravels in general. Please send me a PM and then we can talk by phone.

How about posting some photos and a little of the history of you and the coach?

Pierce

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #13 – August 08, 2019, 10:48:51 am

Like Pierce said, post some photos - they help us a lot answering your questions. A photo of the top of the batteries showing how all the cables are connected would let us see what you are working with. The we can suggest possible solutions to your "dead" battery.

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #14 – August 08, 2019, 12:24:50 pm

One is the engine start. Two are the house normally.

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #15 – August 08, 2019, 12:44:51 pm

Are there any bats under the stairs? I had 2 engine and 1 house when I got this one.
Now 2 house and 1 engine. Rural King had the 8D for 130$

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #16 – August 08, 2019, 03:05:33 pm

As you can see, Foretravel put three 34 series batteries in the U300: 1992 Foretravel U300 GV Specifications

You need 1400 CCAs minumum to start a 6V-92TA at sea level in moderate temperatures. Cold weather and any kind of altitude mean longer cranking and 1400 is not going to do the trick. Two 34 series give a marginal better cranking at 1600 CCA but Foretravel put in three in OEM for 2400 CCA on the 6V-92TA. Our three 31 series raised that to 2850 CCA.

One good 8D only has 1400 CCA with many only at 1100 CCA. This is not enough and the reason my fire department (and Foretravel) raised the capacity. Two 8Ds have just about the CCA of three 31 series.

Pierce

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #17 – August 08, 2019, 03:54:10 pm

Pierce,

Those specs you linked don't say how the three OEM batteries were divided between chassis and coach. Were all 3 originally used for starting? And no coach battery? Or was the owner supposed to use the BOOST switch for every start?

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #18 – August 08, 2019, 07:33:52 pm

Chuck,

The three OEM batteries are ALL start batteries and not divided. They are Duralast 34 series 800 CCA so 2400 CCA for the three. I replaced these after 10 years with Duralast 31 series with 950 CCA for a total of 2850 CCA. The cost was $300 eleven years ago when we picked the coach up in S. Carolina and another $300 total last year for the 31 series.

The start batteries are three in a row between the crankshaft pulley and the back bumper.

The U300 came OEM with two coach/house 8D batteries located one above the other in the rear most compartment on the driver's side. I replaced these with six AGMs with three on top, three on the bottom where the 8Ds were. I had to enlarge the mount a few inches. I would imagine the 8Ds were 1400 CCA each but could have been less. They were bone dry but we waited until we got home to find and install the AGM solar batteries.

The 31 series in the engine compartment needed a new larger rack mounted just above the old rack but with the batteries turned 180 degrees to keep the positive terminal further from the hydraulic tank for the fans.

In the photos below, the 34 series are yellow and have an extra ground cable I added. All fasteners/washers are stainless. There is plenty of room to change the hydraulic belt.

The boost switch has never been used.

Pierce

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #19 – August 08, 2019, 07:49:32 pm

The early U300 didn't have the 3 engine start batteries between the crankshaft and cross member because there was a radiator there. The 3 8d batteries were in the wet bay with a fiberglass removable cover.

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #20 – August 08, 2019, 08:01:52 pm

Quote from: red tractor – August 08, 2019, 07:49:32 pm

The early U300 didn't have the 3 engine start batteries between the crankshaft and cross member because there was a radiator there. The 3 8d batteries were in the wet bay with a fiberglass removable cover.

Yes, but Yurre's coach is a side radiator Special Edition. 1992 was the first year of the Special Edition and also the first year of the wide 102 inch coach. No 102" wide coach had a rear radiator.

Here is the OEM for house batteries in the photo below.

Pierce

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #21 – August 08, 2019, 08:05:56 pm

Forgot the U300 engine batteries. So five batteries total, three engine, two coach.

P

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #22 – August 08, 2019, 09:57:14 pm

Yurre I've been on the forum for just over a year, U300 owner for only about 3 months.
That said, I don't know squat.

3 things:

1. I would have never considered such a purchase if it weren't for the people here on the forum. An incredible amount of knowledge!

2. Digesting that knowledge in the beginning is somewhat like trying to take a drink from an open fire hydrant.

3. The people that we've met in person from the forum are all awesome and helpful.

Keep the faith
Keep researching
Keep asking questions (I learn from other peoples questions b/c I didn't even think to ASK that question)

Foretravel On!

Re: Batteries etc.

Reply #23 – August 10, 2019, 08:33:51 am

Quote from: Phranko – August 08, 2019, 09:57:14 pm

Yurre I've been on the forum for just over a year, U300 owner for only about 3 months.
That said, I don't know squat.

3 things:

Absolutely! There are so many variations.
I am slowly learning through the manuals and especially you guys on Foreforums.
Thank you.
My latest post is re: oil change for the DD 6V92
My signature photo is recent..I'll be posting more asap.

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