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ProSine 2.0 problem and solution

September 04, 2019, 12:32:13 pm

A few weeks ago, I took our motorhome and generator out for some exercise.  I returned home, plugged back in (50A) and read "Prosine Error: Internal # 2563 attempting to restart on the remote display unit. I searched the user manual, the Foreforum and the Internet including the Xantrex FAQs, but could find no documentation on this message. I reached Xantrex tech support and was told that the message indicated an auxiliary DC power problem. I told the tech that my batteries were OK and holding a charge. He suggested a hard restart. That meant turning the Prosine off, turning the shore power off, and disconnecting the 12-volt positive from the Prosine, and waiting 2+ hours before restarting. When I did that, the error message cleared. When I later disconnected the shore power, the inverting function was dead! The inverter LED was flashing. The manual indicated that the Prosine was in "Load Sensing Mode".
Today, I made another call to Xantrex. The tech suspected a sickly internal auto throw-over switch inside the Prosine. He suggested that I start a load such as the microwave oven while the motorhome is plugged in. Then turn off the shore power. That worked and the inverter is back working (for now).
Based on reading this and other forums, I did not expect Xantrex to provide the good support that they did. Their inverter may not be repairable, but the tech did help.
FYI: While I the AC power and the inverter were dead, I decided to do some maintenance on the two transfer switches. The generator/shore power switch #1 is located above the switch #2 which receives power from the inverter when shore power is off. You cannot fully access SW#2 as built by FOT. So I moved SW#1 to the right a little and and SW#2 to the left a little. I can now check all connections, which were very tight. What a PITA changing out SW#2 would be.  See before and after pics.
Before resolving the above issues, I was considering buying a new inverter-charger. The existing Prosine 2.0 uses a RJ11 4-wire cable to its remote display. A new Xantrex Freedom XC uses a RJ12 6-wire cable to its remote display. The Xantrex tech told me that the Freedom XC actually uses all six wires to the remote display. So, the existing RJ11 is not compatible with a new converter. From reading the Foreforum, there may be other/better inverter-converters than Xantrex. For those that have replaced theirs, how hard was it to wire up a new remote display?  Is Victron the only other convert-inverter manufacture using Bluetooth?

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Re: ProSine 2.0 problem and solution

Reply #1 – September 04, 2019, 02:00:46 pm

I think the Freedom XC 2000 is an excellent choice, probably the most for the least $$ I've seen.  It has all the features you will need, it even is recommended for Battle Born lifepo4 batteries.

I have appreciated Xantrex quality in several purchases, two Freedom SW3012 units and one Freedom SW2012.

As far as running the wire, that is not difficult.  I installed the Freedom SW2012 I now have, and it was easy running the new wire up  from where it was. The area it mounted was next to the refrigerator.  The hardest thing was drilling a hole thru the wall to the refer area, and that took all of two minutes.

You can also run the unit with just the remote sitting next to it until you get the run up to it's new location.

Xantrex Freedom Xc 2000 True Sine Wave Inverter/Charger - 12vdc - 120vac -...

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Re: ProSine 2.0 problem and solution

Reply #2 – September 05, 2019, 12:46:09 am

As a Bluetooth link consumes power that might be a consideration.  The main inverter builders use a less power consuming harder to disconnect hard wire. Running wires in a boat may be harder so a Bluetooth saves running wires.  Both ends would need a certain amount of power to be on full time.

My panel turns off its light to save power.  Adjustable time to turn off the wired display

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Re: ProSine 2.0 problem and solution

Reply #3 – September 05, 2019, 09:55:15 am

Connecting most remote displays/controls is plugging in a wire at both ends.  The challenging part is getting the wire to where you might want it in the coach.  Lots of ways to make that happen.  A Bluetooth connection uses so little power that it is negligible.

Lots of good choices out there for a replacement for the Xantrax.  If you are upsizing from a 2000 watt inverter/charger verify that cables from the batteries are bug enough (most likely not) and that your 120v wiring is sized right for more current.

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Re: ProSine 2.0 problem and solution

Reply #4 – September 05, 2019, 10:45:40 am

The wire is easier to run if you cut off the connector, run the wire, the crimp on a new connector.

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Reply #5 – September 05, 2019, 10:51:27 am

Bluetooth power consumption is low but not negligible. Both ends consume  constant power. My buddy questioned the power consumption using Bluetooth right away.  Plus running a video screen 24/7.

A cell phone turns its broadcast power up and down to reach the tower so its volume stays constant.

I bet Bluetooth  does the same thing somehow.  The other inverter brands go to great lengths to hard wire their remotes and to use a tiny led black digits on a clear background that can be viewed  without internal  lighting being on and have a user adjustable display turn off called a "power saver" mode?

Any info on exactly how much power the Bluetooth does consume? Can it be wired direct to compare?

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Re: ProSine 2.0 problem and solution

Reply #6 – September 05, 2019, 02:35:29 pm

Less than a minute to find this at Apple.  It is so easy to just repeat stuff that you hear without making any effort to find the truth. And then repeat it over and over again until you believe it to be true. 

It is a myth that Wi-Fi and Bluetooth on iOS devices (and other manufacturer's smartphones) drain your battery. As a result, a lot of people turn off Wi-Fi and/or Bluetooth to "save battery life." This is the result of some self-appointed guru in the trade press years ago saying that Wi-Fi and Bluetooth are energy hogs. It isn't true, and there is no reason to turn either off, and several good reasons to leave them on all the time. Some real facts (for iOS, although similar for other manufacturer's devices):
Wi-Fi is off when an iPhone or iPad is asleep, unless plugged in. So turning it off is redundant.
If WiFi is not actively being used it uses no power. Yes, it scans for networks every 15 seconds when the phone is not asleep, but that's just a receiver, and uses no measurable power (less than 1 mw).
When WiFi is connected it uses 30 mw continuously, whether transferring data or not. But mobile data uses from 50 to to 500 mw depending on signal strength when using data or voice, so Wi-Fi is always the better choice if you are actively using the phone.

Bluetooth uses no energy unless it is connected to a device. So there's no point in turning it off. And you are clearly using it when it is connected, so you don't want to turn it off then, either. While it listens for Bluetooth devices, it uses no measurable energy to do so, as with Wi-Fi.

When Bluetooth has an active paired connection to a hands-free device it consumes 2.5 mw. As the battery capacity of an iPhone 8 (not plus) is about 6900 mwh, if Bluetooth was the only thing using power the battery would run down in about 2800 hours, or about 3 months. Some Bluetooth devices require higher power; the most will be 10 mw, but that still means that if your battery life isn't what you think it should be, the problem is not Bluetooth or Wi-Fi.

References (You can search for them by name if you want):
Wi-Fi energy consumption: IEEE Standard 802.11
Bluetooth energy consumption: IEEE Standard 802.15
Cellular energy consumption: Cellular Data Handbook

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Re: ProSine 2.0 problem and solution

Reply #7 – September 05, 2019, 02:54:17 pm

When WiFi is connected it uses 30 mw continuously, whether transferring data or not. But mobile data uses from 50 to to 500 mw depending on signal strength when using data or voice

If this is a serious concern.... Might want to upgrade your 9v battery...

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Re: ProSine 2.0 problem and solution

Reply #8 – September 05, 2019, 02:57:31 pm

My tablet sits in the coach paired with 5 different device down below. It is asleep and not using any power till I click on a device and then it takes several seconds to communicate and transfer information.
When idle for 20 seconds, it disconnects and goes to sleep. It is paired to these devices all the time but doesn't appear to use any power when tablet is asleep. Appears completely different than streaming music etc, where the communication is constant. Because Foretravels are so well made, I am very happen that all my Victron devices are bluetooth, and with not having to drill holes and run wires again.

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Re: ProSine 2.0 problem and solution

Reply #9 – September 05, 2019, 04:13:50 pm

Another nice thing about bluetooth connections, when manufacturer upgrades their devices firmware, tablet can connect to web and download upgrades and transfer via bluetooth to devices without needing to attach your computer to each device and do it manually.

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Reply #10 – September 06, 2019, 12:28:04 am

No one has any actual data from the Manufacturer of this particular device consumes power wise to run a dual  ended blue tooth network and a color remote screen with various technical calculations shown.

The idea that the American based products do not use blue tooth remotes means that either they are selling dinosaurs equipment which is hard to believe from three large volume manufacturers here in the USA or that that setup has drawbacks for their uses or marketing choices.

The idea that none  of them can fab a Bluetooth  network remote panel set versus wired seems a little far fetched when  some of those makers have offered remote internet connection for monitoring their systems.

A phone call for info might be possible.  That's where I heard some were not UL listed.  Now they are.  As stated.

Some may think I am for or against any particular setups.  Not true.

Prove it to me.  Please.  Show me a manufacturer chart. May well be minimal. 

Seems easy.  My manufacturer contact said they did not have a 12 volt efficiency chart.

My personal system would have UL listed everything Including UL 1427 marine fire retardant pvc covered cabling.  How much difference are we talking about to run safer cabling?  $100 extra?  A lot of high powered systems now exist.

If I have a major problem at least I did everything possible to reduce my risks. 

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